<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Jul 18 2006, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Duncan started the season at 60% and ended around 75%, had Parker NOT played the way he did they wouldn't have won nearly as many games. I quote Pop talking to Tony hereNot to mention the press conferences after every playoff game. Who carried the team in the playoffs? Parker. When Duncan started to play well against the Mavs what happened? They lost. I'll try to find a article that states it all and you can go ahead and ask any die-hard Spurs fan who keeps up with the team who is the leader.</div>I think its funny how everything you say is wrong. The quote that you showed us tells us that popovich wanted Tony to start being more aggressive on offense. what does that have to do with being the leader on a team? absolutley nothing. And im sorry, go look at the playoff stats and you will see that Tony Parker didnt carry the spurs through the playoffs. I dont know how you say that. And did it ever occur to you that maybe the spurs lost to the Mavericks because they were the better basketball team? I dont think you can blame that on Tim Duncan for averaging 32.3 PPG and 11.7 RPG. And when you say Tony Parker carried the team in the first round, Tony Parker averaged 22 points off of 51 percent shooting. That is really good. Tim Duncan on the other hand averaged 18 and a half off of 61 percent shooting. Did it ever occur to you that Tim Duncan was giving the ball to Tony because it was the smart thing to do and that he just took smarter shots? O, I am a diehard Spurs fan and Tim Ducan is easily the leader of the Spurs.
Shaq was not the leader of the squad. Wade was more so the leader of this team. Watching them play this year, he seemed to to be the one that demanded the respect the most.If you want to get ultra technical, Zo was the heart and soul of the team.Then again, I feel like im watching a bunch of retards argue if Wade is the leader or not. As non-Heat fans try to discredit Wade for not being a 'leader' and while Heat fans try to boast up Wade by being a 'leader'. Its a real stupid topic to even really discuss.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (anypoint @ Jul 18 2006, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Shaq was not the leader of the squad. Wade was more so the leader of this team. Watching them play this year, he seemed to to be the one that demanded the respect the most.If you want to get ultra technical, Zo was the heart and soul of the team.Then again, I feel like im watching a bunch of retards argue if Wade is the leader or not. As non-Heat fans try to discredit Wade for not being a 'leader' and while Heat fans try to boast up Wade by being a 'leader'. Its a real stupid topic to even really discuss.</div>I agree. If possible lets just leave it at that. To baller: did it ever occur to you maybe Duncan isn't playing well and the best thing he can do is give it to TP? Even during the regular season it was pretty obvious TP was the clear cut leader. I highly doubt your a Spur fan if your saying Duncan is still the leader.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Jul 17 2006, 07:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dwyane Wade isnt even the leader on his team so i dont understand how you are comparing his leadership to Paul Pierce's. Dwyane Wade is 24 or 25 and he has been in the league for 3 years and you are calling him more of a leader than Paul Pierce. If you knew what you were talking about, you would know that ALL of Paul's teammates call him a leader and they look up to him.</div>Yes, sorry. I have no idea what I'm talking about in my 20 years of coaching, playing and watching basketball. Sorry. You are my hero.So I guess when Magic Johnson led the Lakers to a championship in his rookie year, that didn't make him a leader. They look up to Pierce because there isn't anyone else on the Celtics to look up too on that team. But that just makes Pierce the leader by default.Now leave me alone, please.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ender @ Jul 19 2006, 02:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes, sorry. I have no idea what I'm talking about in my 20 years of coaching, playing and watching basketball. Sorry. You are my hero.So I guess when Magic Johnson led the Lakers to a championship in his rookie year, that didn't make him a leader. They look up to Pierce because there isn't anyone else on the Celtics to look up too on that team. But that just makes Pierce the leader by default.Now leave me alone, please.</div> I agree with you Ender. It's clearly Dwyane Wade's team....Shaq says it's his team i'm sure most of the players agree as well...I don't see how age has anything to do with it or how many seasons you have played when you lead by example like Wade.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Who did they have in 03-04? Odom, Butler, Alston, and Eddie Jones. Not much of winners, and many of the players underachievers. Wade, in his rookie season, took over in the playoffs. Pierce still hasn't shown me anything like that in playoffs when he has gotten the chance.</div>You have an awful short memory if you don't remember the greatest comeback in playoff history; Game 3 of the 01-02 Eastern Conference Finals. Celts were down 21 in the third and came back to win. They were lead by Paul Pierce.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>You do know Wade is the strongest guard in the league, right? He relies on speed to get there, but he get shis point by and 1's and bouncing off big men and somehow getting it in. No one in league outside of LeBron can get into middle and do that to a defense.</div>Really? Then would you care to explain why Pierce had 9 more free throw attempts than Wade during the regular season? He did play in 4 more games, but that's not a huge disparity. If Wade was so much better at driving he'd get to the line a lot more. FYI, Lebron only had 2 more FTA than Pierce. Clearly all of them are at pretty much the same skill level as far as driving to the basket is concerned. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Wade is more well rounded. Better scorer (higher PPG and FG %), better playmaker, better leader, equal defender. pierce is better rebounder, and it really does end there.</div>Last year Wade averaged .4 points more a game and shot 2% higher from the field. However, his 17% from 3-point range is pathetic. Pierce shot 35%. Wade is the better playmaker because he's faster and Pierce is the better rebounder because he's bigger. Both are the best players on their team and the (co)leader. Wade won because he had a lot more help, so it's not fair to compare that. Everything that is comparable shows them to be almost equal, with each having a small advantage in different areas. There is no clear cut better player in this situation.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Jul 18 2006, 02:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The fact you said Tim Duncan already made me lose all credibility on your post. Pop has STATED in conferences that Parker IS the leader of that team while Duncan is the "heart and soul". You seem to think all veteran players are leaders which is totally wrong. You are the one that doesn't get it through your skull, Wade says he is the leader, Shaq has said it himself several times on ESPN and you just totally keep denying it and stating your opinion. If you still think Parker is the leader of that Spurs team then this debate is over.In case you want to deny the fact Pop says Parker is the leader: Not to mention he has said it in several press conferences.</div>WOW. Tim Duncan has been the leader of that team since he was drafted.And heatfan, honestly, you don't have to be the best player to be the leader. Pierce is without question the better leader of the two.and to whoever said that Pierce hasn't shown anything in the playoffs should go into their parents bedroom, go in the closet, find their dad's gun, and shoot himself in the face.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nba dogmatist @ Jul 18 2006, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>WOW. Tim Duncan has been the leader of that team since he was drafted.</div>Until this season started. Do you really think a 60% Tim Duncan is better then a 100% Tony Parker? Had Tony not played as well as he did they wouldn't have won nearly as many games. In this case Parker is the leader because he is the better player right now and without him the Spurs would be no were near winning 60+ games. The leader isn't always the best player but it doesn't make much sense having Telfair or Jason Williams as your leader now does it. Anyone who watches the Heat enough know they feed of Wade more then Shaq.
OH MY GOD Heatfan, you just don't get it do you? JUST BECAUSE TONY PARKER HAD BETTER STATISTICS DOESN'T MEAN HE IS THE LEADER. Get that stupid thought out of your head. Duncan is still the man and he is still their best player. He is their rock and their advisor. It is Tim Duncan's team, not Tony Parker's. Duncan was hurt this year but that doesn't mean he isn't the leader still.
Wade is the co-captain of the Heat. The players on the Heat voted both he and Shaq captains at the beginning of the season. That means that they're both the leaders of the team. It really doesn't get any simpler than that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr Wolf @ Jul 19 2006, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>OH MY GOD Heatfan, you just don't get it do you? JUST BECAUSE TONY PARKER HAD BETTER STATISTICS DOESN'T MEAN HE IS THE LEADER. Get that stupid thought out of your head. Duncan is still the man and he is still their best player. He is their rock and their advisor. It is Tim Duncan's team, not Tony Parker's. Duncan was hurt this year but that doesn't mean he isn't the leader still. </div>Alright Mr Know it all Wolf, give me any type of proof Duncan is the leader. I don't want any quotes from last season or none of that. I'am still awaiting for a friend to send me a link to Pop himself saying Parker is the leader but lets not wait for that.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Wade is the co-captain of the Heat. The players on the Heat voted both he and Shaq captains at the beginning of the season. That means that they're both the leaders of the team. It really doesn't get any simpler than that.</div>When was this that they voted? It makes sense that they both lead the team but Wade stands out more.
Heatfan- You are making the Wade being a leader point more and more moot with your terrible Tony Parker debate. Duncan is the leader of that team. he is the heart and soul of the franchise. He has been a 20/10 machine, and rises up and plays best in playoffs. He has brought them 3 rings, 2 MVP's, and had 3 finals MVP's of his own. He is a HoF. Tony Parker is still young, imature and not the best player of the team. Wade is very mature, the best player of his team all the while being young. He carries the Heat while Duncan carries the Spurs, not Parker.
1. Kobe Bryant2. D Wade3. Ray Allen (i know you all are gonna call me crazy)4. T-Mac5. Paul Pierce6. Vince Carter7. Michael Redd8. Richard Hamilton9. Manu10. Joe JohnsonHonorable Mentions:Vinny Johnson
1. Kobe Bryant:A future inductee to the Basketball Hall of Fame. League's best scorer. Great enthusiasm for the sport, lethal determination. Great shooting skills, driving skills, dunking ability, rebounding (for a guard), steals, strong, and has decent passing. Amazing fadeaways and pull-up shots. No question about the number one spot.2. Paul Pierce:One of the best, well-rounded NBA players. He can shoot from all the way at the 3-point ark, can drive, capture fouls, make f-shots in, dunk, can rebound, pass, etc. Good leader. Greatest Celtic of the modern-era.3. Dwyane Wade:Improving very fast. NBA Finals 06 MVP. Great scorer, very explosive. Can drive, pull up for the shot, etc. Good leader, great passer. He needs to improve on shooting though. Otherwise, he now has the experiance of a veteran. He is a NBA Champion, and a Finals MVP. Welcome to the Elite NBA Players Club; Dwyane Wade.4. Vince Carter:He brings a lot to his team. He offers the Nets the tempo they want to play in. Amazing dunker, great shooter. Good scorer.5. Ray Allen:He is the best shooter out of all shooting guards in the NBA.The rest:6. Michael Redd7. Richard Hamilton8. Manu Ginobili9. Jason Richardson10. Joe JohnsonHonorable Mention:Ben Gordon
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Jul 18 2006, 11:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Alright Mr Know it all Wolf, give me any type of proof Duncan is the leader. I don't want any quotes from last season or none of that. I'am still awaiting for a friend to send me a link to Pop himself saying Parker is the leader but lets not wait for that.When was this that they voted? It makes sense that they both lead the team but Wade stands out more.</div>Tony Parker is not the leader of the San Antoino Spurs. It's quite obvious, to me, that it is Tim Duncan. In fact, it's one of the most obvious contentions in the league. When you think Spurs you think Tim Duncan. He's their best player, he is their smartest player and all the guys respect him and look up to him. Parker elevated his game this year but that does not make him the leader.Oh and you know what? I found this great quote from Dwyane Wade this year after the Pistons series.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Wade has no doubt heard him. The guard has repeatedly said that he listens to everything O'Neal says; he calls the center "our leader."</div>Hmm...you really can't get anymore recent than that. That was right before the Finals started.
Heatfan-Tim Duncan has won 3 Finals, and was Finals MVP of all of them. He is the better all around player, and he has the best footwork in the League. He is more experienced then Parker, he even mentors Parker. Tim Duncan was injured last year with a nagging foot injury, but that doesnt mean that he is still not the emotional and physical leader of the team. When you think Spurs-you think Tim Duncan, not Tony Parker. Scoring doesnt make you the leader of the team at all. If you think that, then you're definately incorrect. Tim Duncan IS the Spurs.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 19 2006, 01:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Heatfan-Tim Duncan has won 3 Finals, and was Finals MVP of all of them. He is the better all around player, and he has the best footwork in the League. He is more experienced then Parker, he even mentors Parker. Tim Duncan was injured last year with a nagging foot injury, but that doesnt mean that he is still not the emotional and physical leader of the team. When you think Spurs-you think Tim Duncan, not Tony Parker. Scoring doesnt make you the leader of the team at all. If you think that, then you're definately incorrect. Tim Duncan IS the Spurs.</div>If Michael Jordan comes back from retirement he is automatically the leader of the team he joins? Think about what the Spurs would have been without TP this season. Duncan is the heart and soul and Parker is the floor leader and leader during games. Duncan a emotional leader? The man has the same face on him everytime unless hes crying for a foul. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Oh and you know what? I found this great quote from Dwyane Wade this year after the Pistons series.</div>The last thing you want is a Wade and Shaq feud which is what he is trying to avoid. Off course Wade calls him the leader just like Shaq calls him the MVP. They make these comments to support each other and make sure there on the same page. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Duncan is the leader of that team. he is the heart and soul of the franchise.</div>Exactly what I said Nitro, I'm not denying Duncan is the heart of that franchise. But again, the Spurs would be nothing without TP this year. A 60% Duncan isn't near a 100% Duncan and I doubt they would have 60 wins with a un-healthy Duncan. Who carried the team throughout most of the year? TP. Duncan stepped up against the Mavs but every other series he played like he did in the regular season while Parker still improved his game.Also, Greg himself has said Duncan is the "heart and soul" while Tony is the leader. It was in a press during the playoffs this year, look for it yourself.
I didn't read the whole thread about Tim Duncan, but Tim Duncan is the unquestionable leader in San Antonio. Stats don't matter when it comes to leadership.When Duncan first drafted by the Spurs, David Robinson was the leader, even though Duncan had better stats. But slowly Duncan took the role over, even with Robinson still on the team. Duncan might not be super vocal, but he leads by example. He is a superstar who takes the bus and lives in the dorms (not mandatory) during camp. Off the court he acts like a role player and I think that is on purpose. He practices his ass off and people see how he acts and they follow suit.I like Tony Parker, but in reality he is probably known more for who is dating then his game. Not by die hard NBA fans, but the vast majority of people. - I guess the last part doesn't have much to do with leadership, but I wanted to stick that in there.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr Wolf @ Jul 18 2006, 11:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hmm...you really can't get anymore recent than that. That was right before the Finals started.</div>That is what a good leader does. It is no secret that Shaq has a pretty big ego. Wade was filling that ego so Shaq wouldn't grumble. That is leadership. Take the high road.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Jul 19 2006, 02:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If Michael Jordan comes back from retirement he is automatically the leader of the team he joins? Think about what the Spurs would have been without TP this season. Duncan is the heart and soul and Parker is the floor leader and leader during games. Duncan a emotional leader? The man has the same face on him everytime unless hes crying for a foul. The last thing you want is a Wade and Shaq feud which is what he is trying to avoid. Off course Wade calls him the leader just like Shaq calls him the MVP. They make these comments to support each other and make sure there on the same page. Exactly what I said Nitro, I'm not denying Duncan is the heart of that franchise. But again, the Spurs would be nothing without TP this year. A 60% Duncan isn't near a 100% Duncan and I doubt they would have 60 wins with a un-healthy Duncan. Who carried the team throughout most of the year? TP. Duncan stepped up against the Mavs but every other series he played like he did in the regular season while Parker still improved his game.Also, Greg himself has said Duncan is the "heart and soul" while Tony is the leader. It was in a press during the playoffs this year, look for it yourself.</div>Oh, so I guess the guy who handles the ball is the leader. I guess Shaq wasnt the leader of the Lakers, and Marko Jaric was the leader of the TWolves, not KG, right? Please. Just because Tony scores more, it doesnt make him the leader either. Tim Duncan as a player is much better then Tony Parker right now. Tim has some of the best footwork in the League. He is so dominant in the paint, it is almost impossible to stop him. And he is a great defender too. He is one of the best players in basketball, he isn't old yet, and he is still the leader of the Spurs. I dont give a F*ck about Tony Parker. The Spurs are still Tim freaking Duncan until they say otherwise..Oh yeah, just because Tim doesnt show facial expressions, it means he is not the heart and soul of the Spurs. He is the leader of the team. He's the one who motivates them, he is the one who leads them out on the court. He sets the goddamn example out there.
Oh Okay. So when I show you a quote where Dwyane calls Shaquille the team's leader you guys say he is doing it just to be nice to him. However, you guys can show me some quotes where Shaq or Duncan says the same thing and it is suppose to be "proof". It's a double standard.
