This is hilarious stuff. Maybe the numbers were similar (in an extremely small sample size), but I'm not going to project Oden's career based on 82 games over 5 seasons (or even his first 3 seasons, or even the 2 he was active during). It's funny how hard you're arguing for something you want us to see, when you can't admit that Drummond could actually have a higher ceiling than Oden. 5 years, or 10 years, or whatever, from now.... At this jecture, it's more likely we'll have seen Drummond's ceiling than we'll have seen Oden's ceiling. You trying to compare Oden's 82 games over 5 years and project and compare him to a probable-HOFer like Howard is going to be FAR more of a stretch, than posters here trying to compare a guy like Drummond's ceiling to Oden's hypothetical ceiling. This is all assuming Drummond stays healthy, but considering you're comparing a healthy Oden (which simply has NOT happened since EVER) to what Drummond could be if he remains healthy over the course of his career, I'd say the health discussion is a moot point.
The scouts are on my side in this, sorry. Basically every scout said he was a franchise center and comparisons were made to players like David Robinson, Bill Russell, Shaq, etc. He put up pretty good numbers in college playing with one hand. His productivity level was there when he was at his healthiest in the NBA, although he still never was what he was before MF. Even with being a different player after MF, all signs were point to Oden being one of the best centers in the leauge, and imo, could have been as good as Dwight Howard. Without those injuries? Who knows. When you find me a consensus opinion from scouts about Drummond being a franchise center then we can talk.
No need to apologize - you just proved my point. Your point is based on one thing and one thing only: opinion. We'll never know on Oden. Even if he does come back and play. Drummond still has a future, and while I don't see anything touting him as a "HOF" center, I don't see much discounting that notion, either. My original point is everything you're saying is based on opinion, which is exactly what you did with another poster when he made a point that not all players develop at the same time.
An opinion that is backed up by facts and statistics, yes. If you can find me a general consensus among scouts that Drummond is the next David Robinson or Bill Russell I'm all ears.
Well no shit We never really saw what he truly could have been. His career started out with MF surgery and a year off from basketball, and an off-season where he wasn't even cleared to play 5 on 5 until like a month or two before his first season. The odds were clearly against him from the start.
I didn't make that statement. As for your "facts and statistics," there were hardly any stats or facts presented, and they were small sample size and weak. The rest was all your opinion. I don't even care to argue about this. I was just laughing because you have little factual basis for your overall argument, yet you just discredit someone else's opinion - one that actually we will have a chance to see (since Drummond will have an NBA career, we'll get to see the poster's assertion that sometimes players do develop slower). Your opinion? Odds are, we'll never have an answer. So I'm just laughing at you for cutting someone else's opinion, why your opinion is nothing but a fading cloud. As for you referring to scouts making claims about players - how many times have we heard a scout's opinion and it's been wrong? Sam Bowie? Shawn Bradley? Hasheem Thabeet? Kwame Brown? Walt Williams the next Magic? Tskitishvili? S. Swift? Harold Minor aka Baby Jordan? Olowokandi? Tractor Traylor? Nothing personal, honestly. But the majority of scouts and their opinions on players means the exact same thing to me as your opinion: pretty much diddly. Like I said, nothing personal. But their are very few talent evaluators I trust, and the few I do follow, they are wrong as often as they are right. But one thing is for sure: until the player gets out and actually performs, whether at a shitty level or HOF, consisitently for a long-term.... it's all just opinion.
Longevity, durability, health.... these are all things that are part of the greatness of the great athletes.
First of all I've been over this Oden thing dozens of times on this board and have presented stats that show Oden was looking very promising. The numbers are there - especially his last 7 games where he averaged 15/10 in 24min a game. As far as in this thread, I pointed out the fact that Oden's numbers dwarf Drummond's, and then mention the fact Oden played that season with a broken wrist. Maybe you missed this part. But this all comes down what Oden you want to talk about. If you're comparing Oden's pre MF surgery ceiling to Drummond's ceiling, I'm sorry, you're not going to find any scout that will say Drummond has a higher ceiling. As far as scouts being wrong, yeah, it happens. I don't think they missed on Oden though. I think injuries are what did Oden in and never allowed him to reach his ceiling (all-star talent). I don't mean too poo poo Drummond in all of this, but I think people forget how highly regarded Oden was before injuries. He was a physical beast in the mold of Shaq/Howard. Not just super athletic, but powerful, too. Such a rare combination. Drummond seems super athletic, but idk if he shows the same power that those other guys showed.
I really don't think it's worth posting about Oden- though I'm on the side that he was a good pick based on the info at the time and would have been the best center in the NBA w/o the injuries. I think one good thing about being so bad is that we can afford to take the best player available- our core is basically Aldridge and Batum- either one of them can play two positions. If we get a power forward, we can play Aldridge at center- according to Hollinger, this is his best position statistically. If we get a small forward, we can move Batum to SG. I don't know enough about the picks to have an opinion yet, but the review of Drummond that i've found are positive (though not Oden positive)
And this was my original post to Mickzagger'scomment about Drummond and Oden possibly having similar ceilings Is that really "discrediting" his opinion? Get this - I used statistics to say why I thought there was a pretty big gap between them, then pointed out the fact Oden played with one hand. Hmm. Laugh all you want.
LMFAO. 1. Didn't say Oden didn't look promising. 2. Didn't say Drummond had a higher ceiling. But I can tell you, higher ceiling doesn't equal better performance. 3. There were scouts early on who were starting to show some cracking on Oden, even after his poor performance at the summer league. Was it justified? No, but I saw a lot of fans doing the same. 4. I'm not discrediting Oden, or what he was before the injuries. I just don't think we ever knew, and I don't think anyone ever knew because of all the injuries. That being said, nobody ever had a chance to adjust to him and scout him because he was hardly on the floor. Not saying that would change anything, but it happens to players all the time (Lin is the latest example). I think some people are so intent on being heard and being right, they just keep poundng their chests and blathering on. I don't even get what you're arguing with me about. Because all I've said is that you discounted someone else because they expressed an opinion, then I told you everything you had just presented to us in the thread was pretty much opinion, and would ultimately be proven. So, so silly. Why are you even still ranting? I called what you said originally an opinion, and it was. Regurgitating your spiel over and over does not make it any less so.
Well I know Greg oden is gone and i still wouldn't mind Drummond. I want a center that has an nba body. I'm tired of waiting 3-4 years for a 6-11 215 lbs player build 5-10lbs every year.
Totally agree on Oden. If we had the #1 pick, and a clear-cut center came along, I'd take him. It's part of the reason I'm shocked Drummond is currently at #4-5 on some mock drafts, especially given what I've seen of him and given that there are no clear-cut stars.
Yes, I posted my opinion, just as you posted your opinion. That's what happens here on Ripcitytwo. I'm ranting? LOL. Go back and read the thread. Out of nowhere you start ranting because you didn't agree with my opinion apparently. At no point did I discredit anyone's opinion or put anyone down. Maybe you're just sensitive? You tell me.
When he sees all his bro's leaving he'll hop on the bandwagon. He'll be a high lottery pick. Its like when Wall, Patterson, Cousins and Bledsoe came out. Daniel Orton said, fuck it, I'll go too. He was a 1st rounder lol..
I want Chad Ford's job. Be completely wrong and take stabs in the dark and get paid semi-handsomely for it.
Here's a little vid of Drummond for you guys: [video=youtube;4P4VAyHwqSw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P4VAyHwqSw[/video] He's raw for sure, but much more agile than Oden was.
Let's get this W tonight Mags! Back to thread with no more Oden talk, is anyone really sold on a player in the draft? I'm all ears and ready to be sold on a player or two.
