Like I said before, I don't begrudge you your belief in the slightest. Unknowns are scary, and the simple truth is that science doesn't give us very many solid answers regarding the origins of the universe -- at least not to the extent that religion does. I can tell you why it's not theoretically inconsistent to assume that time actually began with the universe, or how there's no physical reason not to believe that the universe will continue to expand forever, dying suns or no. But these are just statements of theoretical possibility, not definitive answers, and that's pretty much the best that science can do when it comes to the origins of the universe. It's enough for me. You say that "something cannot come from nothing", and yet you have never established that there ever WAS nothing. You argue that since the universe seems to include the dimension of time that it must have been set into motion at some point in the past. But time itself is not objective. There isn't some magical watch ticking away at the center of the galaxies that everything else obeys. Time is relative -- it may speed up or slow down relative to other observers based on their respective speeds and accelerations. This concept is not mere conjecture; it's been supported by experiment time and time again (no pun intended), and we use the relevant equations to make corrections to the clocks in our satellites and space vessels. If the passage of time itself is relative and flexible, why is it so hard to accept the possibility that, before all of that mass started expanding, there simply was no time? This would mean that the universe literally existed since the beginning of time, and at no point in time was there ever nothing. (Again, this part IS just conjecture, not a formal creed.) To me, proposing an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent god to answer the question of "how did the universe start?" is a bit like arguing that you need to buy a B-52 bomber because your Geo Metro is too small. Sure, it may get the job done, but nobody is going to convince me that it's necessary, and it raises more problems than it solves.
anyone? is there a disconnect in what mormons believe, and what they will say they believe in public? is everything i asked just propaganda pushed by a christian nation? please enlighten me
the neighborhood where i grew up in vancouver had a lot of mormons it, our high school even had a "seminary" just off the campus, so i was exposed to it pretty often and still can't wrap my head around it. there seems to be a lot of things that many members choose to gloss over now instead of attempting to explain. i did find the cartoon pretty funny and seemed to be similar to south parks "trapped in the closest" episode concerning scientology.
Now Romney's cousin Park (I see awesome hair runs in the fam.) is bringing up the whole Book of Abraham hoax: Romney’s cousin: Mormonism is a ‘fraud’
Ah, the Abraham thing again, you act like this is the first time this issue has come up. What's your question about it exactly?
i asked these months ago and not even a sniff from either you or drock... so earths god is a human from the star system of kolob correct? and there are countless planets being ruled by other gods correct? and jesus is only applicable to earth? because he is the kolob guys son right? and satan was his other son? kolob guy fucked mary with his actual penis? and kolob god fucked his countless wives with his actual penis in outer space to populate the earth? can women be gods? can black people be gods?
Ask like a grown up and maybe you'll get a response buddy. Which of these things did you get from scripture or from our general authorities? I have no interest in answering random questions about our doctrine according to someone outside our church. Cite the sources of your info and we can go from there.
This article is suspect for a couple reasons. First, and foremost, I seriously doubt some internet news site got a quote from Jeffrey R. Holland about this. The church has their own public relations group that would address this if they even cared to do so, which they most likely would have nothing to say on the matter. If this is an actual quote from Elder Holland, I can almost guarantee that it was on a different subject matter and is simply being injected into the piece. There are all kinds of people who make claims like this. The leaders of the church would not personally comment on any of them. There would be an official statement that would come from the public relations office if there were any comment at all. Additionally, Elder Holland would likely not be the one to issue the statement. I suppose he could, but I'd be surprised if he did. Second, the fact that he used to be a High Priest isn't nearly as telling as I'm sure it's intended to make people believe. That position within the church doesn't hold the exclusivity people likely think it does. Most men are High Priest's by the time they reach 40-50 years old as long as they've been active in the church most of their lives. I don't write that to denigrate that office, but just to point out that it isn't exactly the equivalent of a bishop or cardinal in the Catholic Church in terms of exclusivity. My dad is a High Priest, as well as all my uncles, my father-in-law, and even a brother-in-law. Just to give some perspective.
You know, I really did intend to answer those questions. I got busy studying for the bar and completely forgot about it. For now, I'll be brief in answering some of these. The others, I kind of agree with JET in that I'd rather they be asked with more respect regardless of the amount of respect you actually have for it. Be polite in your request and we'll politely explain. Mocking and denigrating things we hold dear isn't much of a way to get an explanation if you actually wanted one. You may have asked more respectfully originally, but I don't remember. If so, I apologize. At any rate, here are some brief answers to a few of your questions: To be honest with you, I don't care to get into the Kolob stuff because I don't know much about it. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that knows much about it. It's not discussed as part of any Sunday School lesson of "Sermon" that I've ever attended. So I can't really answer your question with official church doctrine; only speculation and personal opinion. I guess not being able to answer it is answer enough. There are a few scripture passages that talk about it, and that's as far as I'd go with calling anything about Kolob scriptural or doctrinal. No, women cannot be Gods. They can be Goddesses though. Subtle difference. There are numerous scriptures relating to the prospect of Godhood. Some just choose to interpret the passages as figurative (although I'm not entirely certain how they could be taken figuratively). Yes, all men may become a God, so that includes black men. (And black women may become Goddesses). I intended to answer more of these, but I have to go. Hopefully I remember to do so later.
It's pretty tiring trying to answer questions for people like this guy. He sounds like he already knows what he wants to believe regardless of what actual members tell him.
There is the possibility that he, like most, simply don't know. Regardless of how respectful or disrespectful he asks those questions, it's helpful to a lot more people than just him to have answers from you guys for them. On top of that, focusing on the manner he asks the questions (disrespectful) rather than what the questions are can seem kinda disrespectful to others and a manner of avoiding those questions. Just food for thought. Definitely appreciate your input through this thread as I don't know a huge amount myself.
As somebody who was raised in the church and has not been back since I was 18, religion is just weird to me. If it helps you to stop being a drug addict or alcoholic...... More power to you. If it helps you be a better person or better father/husband ....... More power to you. But for people that actually believe this shit is real? Get a clue. They are stories created by people no different then you or me! Stories, that's it! There was no snake handing out apples or an old man cramming 2 of every living animal on earth on a boat! And when people get all defensive when somebody doesn't believe or respect the way they believe, sorry but that is bullshit! It's because of religion that the majority of our wars have started right? Can you understand that? People are actually killing other people over some fake ass bullshit stories! Like I said, if believing in this stuff makes you a better person, rock on...... Just realize what it is..... Nothing different then a fairy tale! -Peace be with you!
dont be shy guys, sing it from the rafters, and tell me how wrong i am. one of my buddies was LDS, and told me all this stuff. btw, his parents shunned him after he left the church, havent seen thier grandkids in 6 years
Thanks for the offer, but I am very content with my life and family's beliefs. The first time I was in a church since I left home was for my grandfathers funeral down in So-Cal 3 years ago. That side of the fam is BIGTIME Mexican Catholic. Forgot how powerful religion can be.
