Hoopsworld: PDX and NYK will likely throw a lot of money at SVG this summer

FWIW,
I would be absolutely thrilled if we got SVG,
terribly disappointed if we got Mike D'Antoni,
OK if we just kept KC.

 

What MVP-level player did he have in 2003-04? Lamar Odom and his team leading 18.5 PER????? Bwa ha ha!!! Not a single player on that roster received any MVP votes. Not a single all star, no All-NBA players. Yet, Van Gundy got that team to the second round. Nate had a top-10 MVP candidate in Brandon Roy, and a stacked roster, in 2008-09, but couldn't get past the first round. You're argument isn't just flat out wrong, it's also inconsistent. But, I guess that is to be expected...

Again, you choose to ignore that Shaq was injured for 19 of the 21 games Van Gundy coached that season. Sure, Pat Riley looked great when he took over - the very day Shaq came back from his injury? Who wouldn't?

How many titles has Nate won? How many times did he get past the first round. Given Nate's near complete failure in the post season (one time past the first round in 11 seasons, 0.412 winning percentage), I would think you'd be all for a guy who took his teams past the first round five times in six seasons and has a .573 playoff winning percentage. But then logic and reason were never your strong suits.

BNM

 

Yeah, he lost his team to injury! Shaq missed 19 of the 21 games Van Gundy coached with a sprained ankle.

They also had a legitimate shot at winning the title the previous season when they took the defending champ Pistons to 7 games - and may have won that series if Wade hadn't goteen injured.

I can't believe you're actually trashing a guy with a MUCH better playoff record than your favorite man crush, Nate McMillan, who is the poster boy for post season ineptitude. Van Gundy made it past the first round more times in his first two seasons than Nate did in his first 11.

BNM

 

Because I don't think it's necessary to pay big bucks for a Stan Van Gundy. The Blazers tried that with McMillan; Nate's biggest problem ended up being 2/3 of the franchise players got injured, not that he was bringing the team down with bad coaching.

 

What franchise player was injured in the 2008-09 post season? He had a stacked, healthy roster and home court advantage and couldn't get past the first round.

BNM

 

Players get injured. Shaq didn't respect SVG, and saw him choke in big moments. If making it out of the first round with a first-team All-NBA player is the goal, than I guess SVG would be OK. If you want to win titles, I don't think he's the guy, and he's been called out by one of the ten best players in NBA history as losing his composure when the pressure is on. That's why he was fired, not because Shaq was injured. Riley saw that SVG didn't have the players' respect due to the previous year's playoff meltdown, so Pat moved in, and the rest is NBA history.

 

12-man playoff roster, and the 12 players who played the most during the season.

Steve Blake
Brandon Roy
Nic Batum (rookie)
LMA
Przy

Bench:

Outlaw (6th man)
Oden (rookie who disappeared in the playoffs)
Rudy (rookie)
Sergio (back-up PG)
Channing Frye
Michael Ruffin (Shavlik Randolph at times early in the season)
Jerryd Bayless

How is that "stacked"? Roy had a great season, everybody else was below a 20 PER (LMA 19, next best Przy at 15.5), and even Roy wasn't playing at an MVP level.

That team winning 54 games is one of the best regular season coaching jobs of the past decade. LOL at that team being "stacked" with 3 rookies playing in the 9-man rotation. Four out of 11, if you want to count Bayless as the 11th man.

Nate doesn't play rookies? His team won 54 games with 4 rookies in the top 11 players.

 

Anyhow BNM, the point I was trying to make is that I just don't see how throwing big money at SVG really accomplishes anything if the team can't upgrade its talent. I didn't really want to make it a Nate vs. SVG thing; it was more about the impact of SVG, and how I don't think it really means all that much.

 

I already addressed this, but if you prefer a different format:

Steve Blake - PER = 14.4

Brandon Roy - PER = 24.0, 7th best in the entire league, 6th best in both WS and WS/48, all-star, 2nd team All-NBA, 9th in MVP voting

Nic Batum (rookie)

LMA - PER = 19.1
Przy - PER = 15.4

Bench:

Outlaw (6th man) - PER = 15.1
Oden (rookie who disappeared in the playoffs) - PER = 18.1
Rudy (rookie) - PER = 15.5
Sergio (back-up PG)
Channing Frye
Michael Ruffin (Shavlik Randolph at times early in the season)
Jerryd Bayless

You're kidding, right???? Roy was a legitmate top 10 player in the league that season (you could argue top 6 or 7). That alone should be enough to get you past the first round. Six of the top nine players had PER > 15.0. Both the starting and backup centers were above average. Aldridge had a PER = 19.1 as the second option. Rudy set a rookie record for 3-poionters made and was damn effective off the banch that year (his only full season before the back injury suffered at the hands of Trevor Ariza). Blake, the 7th best player on the team had a PER of 14.4.

Compare that to the 2003-04 Heat team Van Gundy took to the second round. Lamar Odom was the best player in that team with a PER of 18.5 (compared to Roy's 24.0 and Aldridge's 19.1). Wade was a rookie with a 17.6 PER that missed 20 games. And Eddie Jones, who's natural position was the same as Wade's was the only other player with PER >14.0. They had no all-stars (not even close), not one 1st, 2nd or 3rd team All-NBA, no one that even received a single MVP vote. But, they managed to get to the second round.

The Blazers best players, were far, far better than their best players, and our role players and bench players were also far, far better than theirs. We had several bench players better than 2 or 3 of their starters. Yet, the Heat made the second round and the Blazers were sent home in six games, in spite of having home court advantage.

Is Stan Van Gundy "the" answer? I don't know. Is he an upgrade over Nate McMillan? His record, especially in the post season, says he is - by a very large margin.

Ah yes, the obligatory PapaG strawman. Where have I ever said Nate doesn't play rookies? I don't believe I ever have, certainly not in this thread. Any other unrelated, tangential factors you'd like to include to draw attention away from the fact the Stan Van Gundy accomplised more, with less, in the post season than Nate McMillan.

BNM

 

I'm not a fan of his for a view reasons:

1) From everything I've heard he's one of those annoying coaches that players tune out quicker than most if things aren't going right. I believe Steve Nash and Grant Hills professionalism kept D'Antoni afloat much longer than he would most places.

2) I'm not a believer in his style working in the playoffs when the game slows down.

3) I feel not only is defense not a strength of his, it is something he doesn't care about and I think you have to have a balanced team to win.

I could be wrong, but I personally think D'Antoni is overrated.

 

Rep-worthy!

 

Thanks for your clear reply, Tince. A reasoned and polite answer is a rara avis.

 

Don't know why but the more I think about it, the more I think SVG is a good candidate

 

I'd love to have more exchanges like this on the board! If we got D'Antoni I would be rooting like heck to be wrong and have the Blazers go on to win multiple titles!

 

I can also guess that you wouldn't be whining about D'Antoni every game, too. Neither would I. If you're the coach of the team I cheer for, I support you through thick and thin. I don't claim to know better than the coach of an NBA team.

 

That's how I feel too. I know I don't know near as much as any assistant coach in the league, let along and head coach.

Even as much as I hate Felton, I want him to score every time he puts a shot up, it's just how I'm wired!

 

What about Calipari? I saw on TV that the Knicks might go after him with a lot of money. Should Portland try to outbid them?

 

Yeah, let's hire Van Gundy. First Shaq calls him out, and now Howard knows he's a flaming shitbag as well. I wonder how long it would take LMA to tune him out?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bask...irms-Dwight-Howard-wants-him-fired/54041976/1

 

College coaches outside of Larry Brown, don't have a good history as NBA coaches.

 

Yeah I agree. The nba pace is much faster. There is way more talent and games go by quickly. It's a tough transition, IMO.