Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin Case!

Evidence presented? Has the trial begun? :MARIS61:

 

the evidence points to a racist conspiracy against mexicans

 

How so? Zimmerman is white!

 

I guess no one can say media attention hasn't altered their memory, but who to say that media has altered it. Witness testimony changes all the time during reflection of the events. Zimmeraman himself has given 4 contradictory statement (according to prosecutor). If ture, I don't think one should say he is lying, just after time and thought, you remember the incident differntly.

Changing testimony after thinking about an event happens and it too wouldn't be the first time, in fact happens all the time. I think factoring why a witness says they changed their testimony should be considered before automatically chalking it up to media pressure? I thought one witness gave a reasonalbe explanation of why she is changing her initial statement.

What did you think of the 911 call? Do you hear like I do (and some media ) that Zimmerman continued to pursue Martin after dispatch told him not to or the way papag (and some media) hears it which is Zimmerman stopped pursuit and went back to his car.

 

Funny papag, you ask me if I can read as you completely mix up the facts.

Frist, believe it or not, I can read, "seriously". Show me in the article I just posted and you said I can't read where it says he returned to the car. You can't because it doesn't say that.

Next how do you get off asking if I can read when you say something as stupid as:

This time, he followed the guy, until dispatch told him the didn't need him to do that. He said "these assholes always get away" as he went back to his vehicle.

You ask everyone to listen to 911 tape, maybe hoping they don't, then you murder what was on the tape. He said the comment about assholes way before the question of if Zimmerman is following him. In fact Zimmerman sounds like he is in his car when he said this. And no where does he say he is going back to his vehicle.

You finally got me into this case and I can see how much you are distorting this. Watch out papag, I'm starting to follow the facts and going to call you out when you misrepresent them.

 

I see no problem with that conclusion . . . as long as you haven't been relying on papag's "evidence"

 

I'm assuming you just didn't read the last part of my post:

"Not saying that's what's happened here, but it certainly wouldn't be the first time. But who's to say the media and the attention this case has received hasn't altered the memories of the witnesses? That can create a lot of pressure, doubt, and uncertainty.

It wouldn't be the first time...."

All I did was speculate that this is could have happened, but I leave it very open, and was just talking about the possibility, not definitively saying it is the case.

But, ultimately, I'd be far more inclined (and I believe most reasonable people would agree) to believe that after self-reflection and taking the time to reflect on the events of the night..... that witnesses' perspectives and memories had changed to more accurately reflect the events of this situation IF the media hadn't gotten so involved, calling this racially-motivated, hate-motivated, etc.... As soon as this case hit the media, you have Al Sharpton involved. Zimmerman's face is plastered everywhere. People were threatening Zimmerman's life, and other people connected to him. Zimmerman was immediately found guilty, and declared a racist, in the media. Martin's pictures show a young, clean-cut boy. Zimmerman looks angry in his.

There has been so much media manipulation, you just simply can't rule out the suggestion that the media could have influence on any and all witnesses.

 

There aren't enough hours in the day.....

 

To be convicted Zimmerman would need to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. This isn't like a civil case where it only requires a preponderance of evidence. If he is tried by a jury of his peers I see no way he can be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

I read it all, but skimed it and read it as you giving a likely explanation for the different statements.

If your point is that could be one explanation for it, I would agree. I also agree that given the nature of this case, that possiblity is much more real than in other cases. I though one witness gave a reasonable explanation that I accepted at face value rather than wondering if she deceptively lying because of the media pressure. But whatever, I get your point that maybe they all changed their story because of media pressure. (I have read a lot of media in favor of Zimmerman including neighbor and friends swearing what a good guy he is. These witnesses appear to live in area and might relate more with Zimmerman than Martin. Maybe witnesses change their story to try and help Zimmerman. Although, IMO, I don't think any of these witnesses would purposely lie to law enforcement in a high profile case like this)

I'm genuinely interested in what you thought of the 911 tape. Did you get a chance to listen to it . . . and if so is Zimmerman pursuing Martin or did he back off?

 

I didn't necessarily have a direct point in this part of the discussion, other than I just think it offers further reason (and I say reason -not proof- because it's a potential argument, not that we have any sort of actual proof in this case) that people need to give the police and justice system a fair chance to sort through the facts before overreacting and drawing all sorts of warranted and/or unwarranted facts, circumstances, attention to a case like this. Give the justice system a chance to work its proper course. The publicity involved in cases like this, I believe, only increases the odds that justice is NOT served in the end. I don't have actual stats to back that up, but it's just something I feel like I've noticed in the public cases that I have followed. It's like when a remark is struck from testimony, and the judge tells the jury to disregard a comment - you can't un-ring that bell in the end. It's like there's so much outrage and anger and calls for immediate action because the suspect is immediately found guilty in the court of public perception, everyone starts with the belief that the suspect is guilty. Jurors are picked, they likely have their belief of guilt or not (they aren't supposed to, but let's be honest - with this much publicity, how can potential jurors not already be swayed one way or another??). Basically, people need to chill the fuck out and stop rushing to judgment - that's why we have a justice system.

As for listening to the tape, I have only listened to part of it. Planned on listening through it all tonight when I get home, since I'll have a free house for a bit. I'll post my thoughts after listening, but from what I have listened to, I didn't really get the feeling that GZ was going after Trayvon. But we'll see once I get through it.

 

BTW, totally cool. I do that too sometimes. At least I didn't ask you if you could read.

But I studied law for 4 years, and I have a high belief and standard for our justice system and equality (as much as it may not seem like it because I often am a smart ass and try to push limits/buttons). There's just a million reasons the statements could have changed, and with all the attention and scrutiny that this case receives, we may never see justice served, whatever that is.

 

[video]http://www.youtube.com/embed/KgR7gCxXQYg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/video]

The above is an uncut audio of the 911 call. I was struck by a couple of things.

First, GZ is very calm throughout the 911 call. He's not agitated and, to me is not someone who is considering killing some kid because he's black, or because GZ is on a macho trip.

He says that TM was wandering around "looking at all the houses." This would seem to be something that would always get the attention of a Neighborhood Watch captain.

He freely gave his full name to dispatch. Doesn't seem like something he would do if he was going to do some vigilante style justice.

The "these assholes always get away" comment seems more like frustration that the police weren't going to get there in time, since TM was running.

If he was still following TM after dispatch told him he didn't need to do that, and he said "OK", why was he worried about giving his address to dispatch because he "didn't know where this kid is." If GZ was still following TM, he would have know where TM was, seems to me.

Go Blazers

 

You can hear him continue to follow, the wind sound picks up when he starts running, and continues after he is told he doesn't need to follow. Then the wind sound dies back down. He only says he doesn't where TM is at because he couldn't keep up.

 

This isn't a hate crime, but it's clearly some kind of manslaughter.

 

So as you might have read, I listened to the recording and found it very interesting too. I can see how it can be interpreted different ways.

I too found GZ to be calm . . . but also paranoid and a bit delusional. He isn't agitated, but his first words to the dispatch is he see some suspicious looking guy . . . "who is up to no good or on drugs or something because it is raining and he is jsut walking about". Well maybe race doesn't play into this but what the hell is that. If some 60 year old woman was just out walking about in the rain, would he consider her on drugs?

After that GZ gets concerned that he is staring at him and says "he got his hand his wasintband . . . something is wrong with him . . . he is coming to check me out . . . he has something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is, please get an officer over here" . .. so at this point he sounds a little scared. Of course we later learn that all his assumtions about Martin are wrong. he wasn't on drugs or had any weapon on him

Then after Martin passes you here him say "these assholes always get away" as he opens his door and starts to follow.

So we know that GM thinks Martin is up to no good, that he may have some kind of weapon and that he doesn't want these assholes to get away again.

After that, it gets confusing as to wht happens. I hear someone who is trying to folllow someone. First he runs and then walks, but alwyas trying to keep an eye on Martin. But I could see how some might hear it as he stopped following.

Now Martin never says he is going back to his car. He does say yes to the quetion of if he wants to meet with the officer but when asked to give location he eventually says to have dispatch call him to get his location. That last line is very telling to me.

So if GZ wasn't following Martin, why couldn't he give dispatch a location of where to meet police. Especially when dispatch suggested the mailbox area?

Lot's of questions surrounding this case . . .

 

That is how I heard it.

 

Prove it. You're the DA ... prove Zimmerman initiated contact. It's not up to Zimmerman's lawyer to prove he did not.

Although the entire "he didn't listen to 911 dispatch" is irrelevant, anyhow.

 

This Zimmerman guy is clearly a racist and a criminal mastermind. I mean, who would think to go to a public meeting a year prior to murdering a black person solely to defend a homeless black man beating by a white? It's ingenious!

http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2012/05/2...ating-of-black-homeless-man-by-white-officer/