A lot of people list Colangelo.But he had a team making decisions in Phoenix. Granted he was the lead, but it was kind of like a GM by committee out there.I think his decisions on Toronto have been very questioable. Getting Rasho and his bad contract. Trading Charlie V for an overrated PG. It is early in his tenure to say he is one of the best. . . And anyone that names Elgin Baylor as one the best forgot the previous 15 years.Best:RC Buford - Along with Pop has kept the Spurs at the top of the NBA for a long time. Finds gems late in the draft and gets FA to sign.West - His teams in LA speak for themselves. His tenure in Memphis is a bit more questioable, but still one of the bestRiley - Kept the Heat competitve sans one yearWorst:Isiah - needs no explanationAinge - What has he really done? Brain typing?Mullin - for no other reason then keeping Mike Montgomery.
WTF? Do you think we'd rather have Bargnani starting at Center right away? No. We need a real center, and we havn't had one in a long time, so I think trading Eric Williams who was complaining and Matt freaking Bonner for Rasho was a great move. We are under the cap, so we have room to spend anyway.And we have Bosh at PF, which is Charlie's natural position. He doesnt fit in playing the 3 or the 5 full time, so we decided to trade him for our most needed position, pg. TJ is quick and he can increase our offensive tempo, so we can run sort of like the Suns. He is also a great passer and playmaker, and a huge improvement over Mike James and Rafer Alston pg wise. We also signed Fred Jones which was a very good move. He will fit into our team tempo and he should definately thrive in it. We also signed a bunch of talented Euro players. and we have alot of depth at the moment.So I don't know WTF you are talking about, but Colangelo has single handedly put us into playoff position.
Exactly. Colangelo made some really good moves this off season. Traded Williams and Bonner for Nesterovic was a really good trade because Raptors have struggled in the past years with a real center. Nesterovic is a big guy and actually knows how to play the game, unlike some of the past centers the Raptors had, Hoffa...Also, Trading Charlie Villanueva for TJ Ford was the key move of the Raptors off season. We didn't really need Villanueva anymore with the signings of Bargnani and Nesterovic. Toronto need a real PG who can set up plays. TJ Ford is a young PG and has already established himself in the league as a great guard. Colangeo has done a great job so far in Torontther great GMs include, West and Paxson.Horrible GMs : ISIAH and KING
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Aug 1 2006, 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nice post. Welcome aboard Raptors fan :happy0144:</div>Thanks, Good to see another Raptors fan on here ... Are there anymore on here? You on RC?Sorry for getting off topic...
Nope, Im not.But JoshBosh, Mosdefinately, Chris are Raptors fan. And dsoung is sort of a raptors fan. So we have a few here..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Aug 1 2006, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>WTF? Do you think we'd rather have Bargnani starting at Center right away? No. We need a real center, and we havn't had one in a long time, so I think trading Eric Williams who was complaining and Matt freaking Bonner for Rasho was a great move. We are under the cap, so we have room to spend anyway.And we have Bosh at PF, which is Charlie's natural position. He doesnt fit in playing the 3 or the 5 full time, so we decided to trade him for our most needed position, pg. TJ is quick and he can increase our offensive tempo, so we can run sort of like the Suns. He is also a great passer and playmaker, and a huge improvement over Mike James and Rafer Alston pg wise. We also signed Fred Jones which was a very good move. He will fit into our team tempo and he should definately thrive in it. We also signed a bunch of talented Euro players. and we have alot of depth at the moment.So I don't know WTF you are talking about, but Colangelo has single handedly put us into playoff position.</div>To already say he is one of the best is just insane. What has he done for the Raptors that has really shown in measurables? Nothing. RC Buford, Riley, West, and on and on have done great jobs for many years. What Colangelo has been on the job for 6 months or so. That is just a homer pick if there ever was one.As for the moves. It is kind of funny. You talk about tempo and how they want to keep it high, but then you claim having Rasho is a great move. Rasho is anything but a high tempo player. He couldn't crack a Spurs lineup that needed a center. With all the money they have spend maybe they should have went after Joel Pryzbilla who is a better center then Rasho and ended up costing the same per year. . . As for TJ Ford for Charile. Sure they have Bosh, but that doesn't mean trade away a player that is more valueable for less. That is what Colangelo did. Charlie had more value then Ford around the league.
He has only been GM of the Raptors for half a year, so of course none of that has shown yet, but it will next season. Look at what he has done with the Suns. He drafted such notable players as Shawn Marion and Amare. He drafted both of them with considerably low picks. He got Raja Bell, James Jones, Eddie House, Boris Diaw and others who all turned out to be decent wing players for the Suns when everything looked like it would fall apart last off-season for the Suns. He also got Steve Nash, who has established himself as maybe the best pg in the League in Phoenix, and he has turned their offense into the #1 offense two years straight now. He has done a ton for the Suns if you really think about it, and he is still only like 45, so he likely has alot of GMing still ahead of him.Rasho isn't a high tempo player, but who cares? Not everyone in our offense will have to be high tempo-esque. We needed a Center badly, and we threw two mediocre players (one of those that hardly played last year) at them and got us a center who is a huge upgrade from Hoffa + Pape Sow. He isnt great, but anything will be alright with me considering our past Center woes. We could have went after Joel Pryzbilla, but who cares? Rasho is better than most of the Centers that have already been signed. Joel was eager to go back to Portland anyway. It was still a great move, so don't downplay it because of better players on the market. He can't just sign all the best players out there. He did a great job getting Rasho.I don't think you get it. Charlie didn't fit in anywhere besides PF. We could have kept him, but we already have capable scorers anyway, and Bargnani will play a similar role as Charlie did, and he will likely be the better player than Charlie anyway, so it doesn't bother me at all. We needed a playmaker badly, and we got one. TJ can run our up-tempo offense, and he is one of the best set up men in the League. He is one of the best young pg's in the League. I think you're forgetting that he has only played 2 seasons. It's npt like he hit his ceiling already, he will get alot better than he already is now.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Aug 1 2006, 06:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He has only been GM of the Raptors for half a year, so of course none of that has shown yet, but it will next season. Look at what he has done with the Suns. He drafted such notable players as Shawn Marion and Amare. He drafted both of them with considerably low picks. He got Raja Bell, James Jones, Eddie House, Boris Diaw and others who all turned out to be decent wing players for the Suns when everything looked like it would fall apart last off-season for the Suns. He also got Steve Nash, who has established himself as maybe the best pg in the League in Phoenix, and he has turned their offense into the #1 offense two years straight now. He has done a ton for the Suns if you really think about it, and he is still only like 45, so he likely has alot of GMing still ahead of him.Rasho isn't a high tempo player, but who cares? Not everyone in our offense will have to be high tempo-esque. We needed a Center badly, and we threw two mediocre players (one of those that hardly played last year) at them and got us a center who is a huge upgrade from Hoffa + Pape Sow. He isnt great, but anything will be alright with me considering our past Center woes. We could have went after Joel Pryzbilla, but who cares? Rasho is better than most of the Centers that have already been signed. Joel was eager to go back to Portland anyway. It was still a great move, so don't downplay it because of better players on the market. He can't just sign all the best players out there. He did a great job getting Rasho.I don't think you get it. Charlie didn't fit in anywhere besides PF. We could have kept him, but we already have capable scorers anyway, and Bargnani will play a similar role as Charlie did, and he will likely be the better player than Charlie anyway, so it doesn't bother me at all. We needed a playmaker badly, and we got one. TJ can run our up-tempo offense, and he is one of the best set up men in the League. He is one of the best young pg's in the League. I think you're forgetting that he has only played 2 seasons. It's npt like he hit his ceiling already, he will get alot better than he already is now.</div>For the majority of Bryan's career in Phoenix, it was his dad, Jerry, that ran the show. Picked in the draft, signed FA, etc. Bryan worked as a secondary person (the reason he left Phoenix) to his father, so while Bryan deserves some credit, Jerry deserves most of it.As for Rasho, getting him wasn't a great job. First the Spurs wanted to get rid of him and no other teams were going after him. It was a no brainer for the Spurs. They get two players that are more athletic and have shorter contracts. It wasn't like Bryan made a steal or a made a coup by trading for him. I'll downplay the aquisition for that fact if nothing else.Well it isn't like Charlie has hit his ceiling either. Charlie can play SF and that actually might be his best position. Last time I checked the Raptors needed a SF (if Mo Pete plays SG). Yes the Raptors needed a PG, but maybe he could have gotten more for Charlie? He sure made the trade very early. . . Anyway, I never said Bryan was one of the worst GM's in the league, but to put him in the top 3 at this point is ridiculous. Buford, West, and Riley have all won championships and built teams to contend year in and year out. Bryan has not done so (maybe for 2 years in Phoenix).
Yeah, I realize that, but Brian was still apart of all the moves. He was the head man in the signings last year, and the year before. Don't discredit him because of his father.I dont care if it was easy for us to get him. When you look at it, it was a great move for us. Center was our weakest position by far last year. Eric Williams played a total of 300 minutes last year. He only played in about 30 games, and played like 10 mins a game in the ones he played in. Matt's minutes will be replaced by PJ Tucker. He was a good shooter, but there was nothing else he was good at. We didn't need either player, and we got an okay Center at the position we needed most. Bad move? I think not.That's the thing. Charlie doesn't have the lateral quickness to compete with other wing players. He is 6"11 and also very tall for a SF. PF is his natural position, and that one is the only one he can play full-time. You don't know our team, so don't pretend that you do. Mo Pete will move to SF now that we have Fred Jones and Anthony Parker. We have capable backups after Mo like Joey Graham and PJ Tucker. So no, we do not need a SF at all. Gotten more? What more do you want? He just came back from a major back injury, and had a great sophomore season. He is a great playmaker, and his quickness is unlike most. TJ will be a great fit, and he will be our pg for the next 5 years atleast.I dont care about past accomplishments. Bryan is still a young GM, but he is one of the best currently. If you don't put him up there, then you're just kidding yourself.
I think the two best GM's right now are John Paxson, and Brian Colangelo. Paxson has done an excellent job rebuilding the Bulls, and made the best of this off season to help the Bulls get to the next step. Colangelo is credited for turning the Suns into the team they are today, and has done a very good job into molding the Raptors into a winning franchise for the first time since Air Canada. Brian also got the honors of helping Coach K assemble the '08 USA Olympic Team.
^ It was Bryan's dad Jerry that helped coach K assemble team USA. Two different guys and Jerry ran the Suns for much longer then Bryan did.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Aug 1 2006, 09:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, I realize that, but Brian was still apart of all the moves. He was the head man in the signings last year, and the year before. Don't discredit him because of his father.I dont care if it was easy for us to get him. When you look at it, it was a great move for us. Center was our weakest position by far last year. Eric Williams played a total of 300 minutes last year. He only played in about 30 games, and played like 10 mins a game in the ones he played in. Matt's minutes will be replaced by PJ Tucker. He was a good shooter, but there was nothing else he was good at. We didn't need either player, and we got an okay Center at the position we needed most. Bad move? I think not.That's the thing. Charlie doesn't have the lateral quickness to compete with other wing players. He is 6"11 and also very tall for a SF. PF is his natural position, and that one is the only one he can play full-time. You don't know our team, so don't pretend that you do. Mo Pete will move to SF now that we have Fred Jones and Anthony Parker. We have capable backups after Mo like Joey Graham and PJ Tucker. So no, we do not need a SF at all. Gotten more? What more do you want? He just came back from a major back injury, and had a great sophomore season. He is a great playmaker, and his quickness is unlike most. TJ will be a great fit, and he will be our pg for the next 5 years atleast.I dont care about past accomplishments. Bryan is still a young GM, but he is one of the best currently. If you don't put him up there, then you're just kidding yourself.</div>Ahh so past accomplishments mean nothing? I guess LeBron is better than Jordan or Magic or Bird. Come on. Get off your high horse. So Buford, Riley, and West aren't the best currently? They are all current GM's and have put up just as good if not better teams the Bryan has in his short tenure (after his father left) in Phoenix and in Toronto.Past accomplisments do matter. Say Isiah leads the Knicks the playoffs, does that mean all his past mistakes mean nothing? No.I don't discount Bryan for what he did in Phoenix, but to say that he drafted Marion or Stoudamire on his own isn't giving his father credit for being one of the best owners, personel men and people that have shaped the NBA.So Joey Graham or PJ Tucker is as good as Charlie V? Plus I wouldn't say Ford had a great season. Charlie Bell and Mo Williams outplayed Ford in decent spurts. Plus he can't shoot, so teams will double Bosh without a problem. Charlie is better at spreading the floor then Ford will be.Don't get me wrong I like Ford, but right now Bryan got played on this deal and I'm not the only one that thinks so.
Yeah, I think so. The reason that you say those guys are better than Colangelo is because they have more experience. You aren't choosing them because they are the more skilled GM. Correct me if Im wrong, but are we talking about past credentials, or the best current GM? Glad I cleared that up.Mo, Joey Graham, and PJ Tucker are definately better than Charlie, Matt Bonner, and Eric Williams last season. Your forgetting that Mo played SG last year, so we will be just fine at the 3. It is now one of our best positions.Spreading the floor? That's what Bargnani does dude. That's why we brought him in. He will draw the defense in, and allow Bosh to thrive downlow. We have that covered. TJ can't shoot or score, but offense and shooting are one of our major strengths as a team. TJ can run our offense, that's fine.Played on the deal? Oh yeah Dude, we got our playmaker, and floor leader. We give up Charlie, but he doesnt fit in at any position besdies PF, and we got an even more effective offensive player, (his replacement) in Bargnani. You're clueless if you think we got ripped on the deal.
I'm talking about past and current accomplishments. Current is more then the past 6 months. All the guys I mentioned still have their jobs and are still doing an incredible job and it actually shows on the team. We have yet to see what Colangelo's job pans outs. I guess you are the only one that knows that Colangelo pulled the wool over the Bucks eyes. I wish I was as enlightened as you.Yeah, you want a center that sits 18+ feet out to spread the floor. That has championship written all over it. . . .The Raptors will need Bargnani to thrive down low as well. The Raptors were good in scoring last year in part because of Charlie. You can have Colangelo, I'll take Bufrod, West, or Riley any day of the week. Bryan is a very good GM, but he isn't in their class yet.
