PBS presents "9/11: Explosive Evidence - Experts Speak Out" [video]

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Haakzilla, Sep 9, 2012.

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  1. noknobs

    noknobs Well-Known Member

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    I was going to watch a few minutes, then write something snarky to all the tinfoil hats. Watched 90+ minutes of it. Very compelling stuff due to the hard science they provide from scores of experts.

    With all the evidence it's very hard for me to believe it could be anything other than a controlled demolition that brought those buildings down, and was subsequently covered up. Who or why, no idea.


    If you're a doubter, watch the video and tell me why each argument is wrong, I'm very open to that possibility as well. Just provide sound science against the main issues, as opposed to doing what Papag is doing, which is arguing against a movie he to this point hasn't even watched. And that's obvious due to the way he's arguing.
     
    noknobs, Sep 10, 2012
    #41
  2. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    Probably a couple dozen.

    The thought scares you to death, that much is clear.
     
    MARIS61, Sep 11, 2012
    #42
  3. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    I won't have time until the weekend, but I'll try very hard to check it out. Maybe in the time before the boring-as-hell early ACC/SEC games they play here in FL at noon and before Navy crushes Penn State at 3:30.

    I'll preface my comments then, however, by saying that in my graduate work in Metallurgical and Welding Engineering we looked a lot at the basic premises that (I presume, based on the comments above) are going to be talked about vis-a-vis steel properties at temperature, etc. I'd also encourage anyone interested to head to the library (or drop a few dollars on Amazon) and check out Dr. Muller's Physics for Future Presidents. It details with a good mix of hard science and plain talk one smart guy's analysis of the events.
     
    BrianFromWA, Sep 11, 2012
    #43
  4. Stevenson

    Stevenson Old School

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    Who would have set all of the explosives? How could they have done it without anyone noticing? Why would they do it? How did they recruit Saudi terrorists and Osama bin Laden to conspire with them and take the rap? How did they plan it for the day the planes were hijacked?

    It makes no logical sense at all - that's why it is impossible to take seriously.

    I don't have to waste 2 hours to know its ridiculous, though I did watch for 10 minutes and the first "expert" was some flunky with a "bachelors in architecture" who worked for a big firm that built two buildings. Their FIRST expert on the video. Puhleaasse.
     
    Stevenson, Sep 11, 2012
    #44
  5. PapaG

    PapaG Banned User BANNED

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    'Probably' or 'possibly' seems to be the firmest evidence given in that film. Real life shows that steel gets compromised at much less temperatures, and without a working sprinkler system, it can collapse. That film is almost 2 years old, and now it's big news?

    No, the thought makes me laugh at kooks who buy this rubbish, and lo and behold, for the most part it's the same kooks here who I didn't take seriously before watching that idiocy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2012
    PapaG, Sep 11, 2012
    #45
  6. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    It feels very very strange to have the same opinion as PapaG on something, but here we are.

    I haven't watched this one, but a few years back I watched a whole bunch of these (and discussed them here/BBB.net). At that time, they were all complete crap. Now maybe there is something new, but frankly I think you conspiracy theorists are in the same position as the boy who cried wolf.

    Maybe there is a real wolf, but I'll wait until it dresses up in grandma's clothes and shows me its teeth.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Sep 11, 2012
    #46
  7. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    For the victims and all Real Americans, 9/11 will always be big news.

    It's 9/11, and while you all claim to feel bad and sorry for the victims and all "cause it's the stylish and hip thing to do, if you really gave a damn you'd have a genuine interest in getting to the bottom of why they died and who orchestrated it and why after 11 years no serious investigation has been allowed to take place.

    If you really think a couple dozen borderline retarded Saudi Arabian malcontents accomplished this on their own you're every bit as ignorant as your posts make you appear to be.
     
    MARIS61, Sep 12, 2012
    #47
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    This.

    I didn't know anyone who died in the WTC, but I did have close friends who were United Airlines pilot and stewardess who went to a lot of funerals in a 2 week period. It was a miserable experience for them.

    Occam's Razor. The supports on the floors where the plane crashed into the building eventually gave way due to being damaged and the subsequent fire. The kinetic energy produced by the weight of all the floors above falling 10 ft onto the next floor below was enough to make those supports collapse. Now you have the weight of all those floors plus one falling to the next floor below. And as gravity accelerated the fall of the whole thing, the kinetic energy produced vastly increased.

    Ke = 1/2 mass * velocity squared. Both mass and velocity increased each floor that collapsed.
     
    Denny Crane, Sep 12, 2012
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  9. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Don't you guys know anything? The 9/11 attacks were filmed in the same studio as the moon landing.
     
    Natebishop3, Sep 12, 2012
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  10. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

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    We were not creating mass, it was always present. What was holding up the mass changed.
     
    Eastoff, Sep 12, 2012
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  11. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

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    Just curious, but were there any hard facts about the temperatures in the building or just simulations? For the record, I think your argument seems quite valid here.
     
    Eastoff, Sep 12, 2012
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  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Weight of 20 floors hitting the floor below.

    Weight of 21 floors hitting the floor below that.

    Etc.
     
    Denny Crane, Sep 12, 2012
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  13. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

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    Oh I understand, but those floors weren't exactly floating before.
     
    Eastoff, Sep 12, 2012
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  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    They weren't falling to the floors below before, either.
     
    Denny Crane, Sep 12, 2012
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  15. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

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    fine Denny you're right, I'm wrong.
     
    Eastoff, Sep 12, 2012
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  16. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Heh. As always.

    But seriously, consider the formula for kinetic energy.

    Ke = 1/2 * mass * velocity squared

    When the floors aren't moving, velocity = 0, so there's 0 kinetic energy.

    When the floors are moving, even at .1 meters/sec, there's significant Ke because of the mass of the 20 (or whatever floors).

    Clearly at some point, the floors below did little to slow the speed of the rest of the building falling from above. Gravity.
     
    Denny Crane, Sep 12, 2012
    #56
  17. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

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    I understand your point. I disliked your original wording.
     
    Eastoff, Sep 12, 2012
    #57
  18. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Would you have preferred if he had said "Both velocity and the portion of the building's mass which was falling (to which the Ke formula is relevant) increased"? A little wordy, but slightly more precise.
     
    PtldPlatypus, Sep 12, 2012
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  19. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    Buildings that are purposely demolished through controlled explosions basically implode and flatten straight to the ground, in order to prevent damage to their surroundings.

    Pretty much all buildings that fall due to any other cause such as gas explosion, earthquake, wind, poor design, substandard building products, being struck by large object... topple to one or more sides and cause peripheral damage to their surroundings.
     
    MARIS61, Sep 12, 2012
    #59
  20. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

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    Yes! exactly!
     
    Eastoff, Sep 12, 2012
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