Stack expiring contract does little for the Mavs. They still are above both caps especially when they sign Dirk to his extension and Howard to his. So how does it really help?Being more talented does not equal better results but it helps. Martin has been in many finals games, so we aren't talking about Darius Miles here.As for my last statement. During the playoffs Avery eluded to the Mavs needing to be tougher on a number of occassions. They signed and traded for players that are tough, as I pointed out before. Buckner, Johnson, and George are all tough minded players. If they thought their toughness was fine they would not have gotten them.And since when did Dampier have a reasonable contract? He alone ruins the our three centers have are reasonable theory.
Luxury tax and cap issues in the future. Cubes wants to stay under the luxury tax which if you noticed a lot of teams are trying to do right now. Why do you think Van Horn was just let to expire instead of traded at the deadline? That still doesn't explain how he fits on the roster, so I could care less again how talented he is, even when he really isn't anymore. The guy is not the same player from his days in the Finals. Boot a near max contract and he doesn't fit financially either. Notice how all the players we brought in are for the bench. The top 7(Dirk, Howard, Terry, Stack, Harris, Damp, Diop) are still the same in the rotation. We needed tough minded players coming off the bench for us, that's it. Also, George was brought in because Griff didn't resign with us. So we had to replace him. Also, we only sign and traded for one player, Johnson. We signed Buck and George outright. And you can say Johnson was brought in to be tough minded but bottom line Armstrong was done and we needed another pg, so Johnson was brought in, tough minded yes but he was brought in for other reasons as well. Um because unlike Martin, Dampier's contract will be shorter as he has stipulations that he has yet to meet. All Star games, numbers of games started. That takes a year off his contract and also, if you look at his contract at the context of centers in the league. Yes it's reasonable. Pair with Diop's and Benga's contract. All three are reasonable. Martin is making near max contract, on bad knees, Damp has yet to show a injury filled season or a bad attitude coming off the bench. So for the money, Damp is doing what he was brought in to do, while Kmart has hardly lived up to his contract and led to him not playing in the playoffs at all. Bottom line, Kmart is not coming here, so I don't know why your trying to build up his value to us Mavs fans. Especially that dumb trade for Stackhouse/Van Horn makes zero sense.
I'm not trying to building anything to you Mavs fans. I could really care less. But to you it doesn't make sense, but to other people (news paper reporters, other fans of the Mavs and Nuggets) it does. So get off your high horse (as it seems you are on one).As for Cuban not wanting to pay Luxury tax. Hmmmm. . . That is why he has been willing to pay $30 million plus in luxury tax amounts over the last few years. That is why he signed Dampier, even though he knew he'd have to pay the luxury tax. Yeah that makes sense. Yes it is not ideal to have to pay a luxury tax, but some owners care less about it then others and Cuban has shown by his past actions that he is one of the owners that is willing to pay it. Say all you want about him not getting rid of Van Horn or Finley or Nash. But he still has been paying it and spending like he is willing to keep paying it.Dampier has 5 years left on his contract for about $11.4 million. That is very reasonable for a guy that had knee trouble in Golden State. Is extremely foul prone, is 31 years old, and averages 25 minutes a game. Wonderful contract. . . Martin makes more money, but has the same 5 years left on his contract. . . As for Dampier's contract getting reduced by a year if he doesn't make all-star appreances. Can you show me a legit reference to this please? I'm not sure it is even legal or if the players union would even allow something like that.
I honestly don't see why the Mavericks would need K-Mart on this team. They have Dirk Nowitzki and have added Austin Croshere so I don't see Martin coming off the bench because that would cause him to complain about playing time which is not what the Mavericks are looking for.
Damp's contract might be unreasonable, but the only way to make things stupider is by trading him for KMart.
No Ender, Cubes is not willing to pay outragious amounts of money and luxery tax anymore...that's why he didn't go all out for Nash, and took Damp instead, because he would help the mavs win more than Nash can at this point.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ Aug 12 2006, 01:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No Ender, Cubes is not willing to pay outragious amounts of money and luxery tax anymore...that's why he didn't go all out for Nash, and took Damp instead, because he would help the mavs win more than Nash can at this point.</div>That actually contradicts what actually happened. Nash's contract is shorter than Dampier's and about the same amount of money. So letting go of Nash and signing Dampier instead had nothing to do with the luxury tax. If there was real concerns about the luxury tax 2 years ago, Dampier would not be a Mav. Regardless, like I've said. I don't think the trade is going to happen. I'm just arguing some of the other points that have come up along the way. . .
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ender @ Aug 12 2006, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That actually contradicts what actually happened. Nash's contract is shorter than Dampier's and about the same amount of money. So letting go of Nash and signing Dampier instead had nothing to do with the luxury tax. If there was real concerns about the luxury tax 2 years ago, Dampier would not be a Mav. Regardless, like I've said. I don't think the trade is going to happen. I'm just arguing some of the other points that have come up along the way. . .</div>They used a sign-and-trade to pick up Damp, so that's not entirely accurate.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Aug 12 2006, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>They used a sign-and-trade to pick up Damp, so that's not entirely accurate.</div>That is correct, too bad they gave up guys with shorter, more reasonable contracts to get Dampier, which again shows Cuban mind. . . Lattner, Najera, Flores, and someone else. . .
Um show me these other Mavs fans who want this trade to happen. For the Nugs, no way they pass up a deal that rids them of Kmart's contract and brings them a expiring contract. So no sh*t Nugs fans want it, and I don't care about newspaper reporters, because their the ones making up this stuff. Hello, Cubes is trying to get under now, the past years he was free spending and he paid for it, now he's learning from his mistakes and preparing for the future. Other then Dampier, the past 2 years he has done nothing but the opposite of the first few years with Mavs. So yes, he's obviously not trying to pay the Luxury Tax. The past is over with and he's done nothing of the sort the past 2 years to show he's willing to spend money and trade for players with long term contracts. Again, look at all the centers in this league and show me one center who is not overpaid. Most of them are, it's simple. We overpaid to get Dampier because we needed a center and we got Avery's endorsements. If Cubes did not care about the luxury tax, we would taken on both Damp and Nash. But no we decided on Damp. A financial mistake but were not going to be taking on Kmart's contract along with that when we didn't do it with Nash back then. Especially a guy with as much faults as Damp. It's called incentives that are laced through his contract. And it is allowed, players have those in their contracts, how is it illegal? We had too, because we can't sign Damp outright.
Just wanted to add, Ender besides financially why this trade makes no sense for Mavs(why in the world would Cubes tie up so much money in three players who would run into each other's minutes, Why?). I really want to know. Because here's I see it, Dampier, Dirk and Kmart. We would be tied up with three players in the frontcourt who will overlap each other in minutes and make near max money. Now only that, but Mavs have Diop and a recently resigned Benga trying to play for minutes. So again, adding Kmart kills their minutes and makes our trade for Croshere redundant. Makes a lot of sense for Dallas right? All that for a guy whose contract comes off the books next year and a guy we don't have to sign and trade. And with Howard having to be extended. Yep, Cubes is trying to make us the Yankees of basketball with this trade. Also, you talk about the year we got Damp as an example of Cubes not caring, well you seem to not include us not resigning Nash to a bigger contract after our initial offer and our trade of Jamison, who had a long term deal. So it's not like Cubes was adding contracts, he was also subtracting large ones. Nash/Jamison gone, we brought in Damp. But no, Cubes was just spending money like crazy right? Still don't see the benefit. And the Mavs fans who want Kmart are in the minority. The way I see it, is Stack and Croshere are going to expire and were not picking up any long terms contracts with either of those players. Allowing those extensions and Damp to take up our cap, resigning any of those guys for cheap or finding a reasonable replacement if not already on the roster(Pops/Ager). You erase Van Horn, Stack and Croshere's contracts off the roster and I would say Cubes is definately trying to save money.
Going back to your other post first: I didn't say that incentives are illegal, I said I don't think the players union would allow incentives to determine the length of the contract. I think you had mentioned that if he doesn't meet certain incentives his last year becomes null and void. . . As for Jamison. . .he didn't fit. He was an offensive minded player that needs the ball in his hands to be effective. He didn't fit what the Mavs were doing, because he would command the ball. Plus the Mavs needed a SG.Maybe Van Horn wasn't traded because the Mavs thought they might need him?As for Martin, Dampier and Dirk running into each other's minutes. Sure. But Dampier plays 25 minutes a game. That leaves 23 minutes. Dirk plays ~38 that leaves 10. So about 33 minutes for Martin. I would assume Dirk would benefit by playing less minutes over the long haul as well. Regardless, say 33 minutes for Martin, that is exactly where his career minutes per game lies. Yes it does not address Croshere, Diop, and Mbenga's minutes. . .As for Cuban not signing Nash. I don't think not signing Nash and getting Dampier were really that related. A lot of people in the league felt Nash getting the 6 year deal he got from Phoenix was too long because of his age. I think Cuban felt the same way. Dampier was gotten because they felt they needed a big body in the middle.Cuban might be trying to save money, but he still is one of the most free spending owners in the NBA. Dirk will probably get $20 million per year in a year or so and Howard will get $8-10 million. But when their contracts expire, they'll still need to sign 5-6 players to fill out the roster, with all the expiring contracts you talk about.So say $30 million for Dirk/Howard. Plus $11 for Dampier. $41 million. Another $9 million for Terry. $50 million. Harris will be eligible for an extension. Say for $8-10 million. That is $55-60 million dollars for 5 players. To get the other 7 it isn't unheard of having to pay another $30+ million. Again putting him the high luxury tax bracket.Howard will be 29, Dirk 30, Dampier 33, Terry 30. Harris will be at the beginning of his prime. So unless he trades Dampier or Dirk or Terry he'll still have to pay a lot in luxury tax amounts.Yes financially getting Martin hurts Cuban's pocket. But I still don't see him shying away from it as most owners are doing.Regardless, I think we all agree that the trade isn't going to happen. . .
He has to meet certain incentives or his final year is not guaranteed. Just like Kmart doesn't fit, but besides that, his long term contract was removed and one of the players would be used to gain Dampier. Don't see the need for sg at that time when we had Finley/Daniels who we resigned. Well if Cuban was such a free spending gm, he would have traded Van Horn's expiring contract, right instead of letting him walk for nothing? So it makes no sense. Huh? Cubes has gone on record as saying we only could afford one of them. Many fans questioned why we couldn't sign both and Cubes stated he did not want two contracts of that length on the cap. Really contradicts your point of Cubes not resigning Nash as Damp is not young and got a 7 year deal at the time. 2 players(Stack/Croshere), where did you get 5 to 6. Dirk/Howard/Damp and Terry would be our main contracts on the book. The rest of the roster is filled out with both decent contracts and small contracts. And Terry took a paycut opposed to what he was earning with his last contract. Considering his performance in Dallas, that's a nice contract. I will wait for the final numbers and I can already say I don't expect Harris to get that kind of extension for what he's done. But othen then that, the players who will be receiving the big bucks are the ones that deserve them except Dampier. It's not like Cubes is overpaying to keep someone anymore nor sign and trade for a large contract. Other then resigning our own guys, he has not done a major trade for a while. And Croshere and Stack coming off the books should help in allowing those type of extensions to occur, rather then piling up contracts. It doesn't even fit roster wise with the players we have. So Cubes won't pull it just because it's Kmart. If we had a hole at pf or center, then yes but we don't. Obviously.
