Hope we don't make the same mistake with Leonard as we did with Jermaine...

I know what you're saying, and I don't think we're in disagreement. I was merely pointing out that the list of Cs posted by brainiac was made artificially short by the requirement of 2bpg. BPG doesn't capture shots that are altered, and so it's a very incomplete, and not very useful, measurement of a player's defense. Is there really any noticeable difference between a C who blocks 2.2 spg and a C who blocks 1.7 spg (or 2 vs 1, as I originally posited)? Perhaps there is, but you can't just look at that measurement and say that the guy who has the higher BPG average is the better player. The guy who's averaging 1.7bpg may be altering far more shots than the guy with a higher BPG average.

And I'm talking specifically about the blocked shots - not what they MIGHT lead to. In the best case scenario the difference between 1 block and 2 blocks is a savings of two points (3 if you want to get technical, but how often does a C block a 3-pointer?). If everyone in the league shot 100% then the difference would be 2 points. But because nobody shoots 100% it's not even a 2 points per game difference - more like 1 ppg. So in a game that scores in the 90s/100s are we really THAT concerned about a 1 ppg difference? I'm not. I'll take someone with a lower BPG average if they're a better overall defender.

And just to get back to what MIGHT happen after a blocked shot - often times the shot is blocked out of bounds, giving the ball back to the opponent with a chance to reset their offense.

Again, I just think that a fairly useless stat was used to create an artificially short list. There are far more than 3 quality Cs in the league.

 

Oh ya. stats are great. you can use them to make any argument

 

This is probably a better list of all relevant centers in the current NBA. Very few of them are what anybody would consider great rebounders on a per game basis.

I look at that list and I wonder why people expect Leonard to eventually become a 10 reb/game guy. I understand it says he rebounded well in college in the draft reports, but my eyes tell me otherwise. It just doesn't happen a lot, and I don't see him doing it.

 

10 Rebounds a game? Who said that? That is All-Star numbers.

I see his line in 3 seasons being:

7.5 pts/game, 7.7 rbs/ game, 1.1 blks/game

Is that a star? No. Is that a bust? No.

 

the 8/8/2 blocks was from a previous thread, where that would be "nothing special"

in the post you are talking about is a link of players averaging 2/2/.5 blocks

here is a link of centers averaging .1/.1/.1 blocks in at least 1 mpg (bbref shows 50 such players), basically every center in the league more or less

http://www.basketball-reference.com...comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws_per_48

 

btw blue the "artificially short" list at 2bpg...

here it is at 1bpg instead, its EIGHT players long

http://www.basketball-reference.com...comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws_per_48

 

If he does merely 5/5/1 that puts him in top 15 (or 16 if he doesn't bump anyone out) at Centers in the league.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws_per_48

Basically better than what half the teams trot out every night. Crazy to think that is all it takes to be in the top half.

 

I think we should be more worried about just GETTING an actual C, and focus on his ability to defend and rebound. I don't care if he blocks .8 or 3.8 shots per game, as long as he makes it tough for opponents to score in the paint.
I LOVE a good blocked shot - I'm just not interested in using it as a stat to say who's good and who isn't so good. According to ESPN there are 22 Cs averaging 1+ BPG. I think we can all agree that ANY of them would have a profound impact on our team.

 

Yes. Blocked shots are great. Being in the right position consistently on defense and knowing how to close off the lane and help/rotate is even better. As is laying a hard foul on someone once in a while, instead of getting fouls because you're in the wrong position.

 

Great point!

 

for what its worth, nards is around the 20-30th best c in the league right now

 

Can you tell me the answers to any of those questions? Are you totally aware of exactly how many shots centers effect?

 

That's what I loved about Przybilla. When he fouled someone, they stayed fouled.

 

He hasn't shown enough to prove that trading him away would be a mistake...

 

Not at all

 

basically, basic stats dont always tell the whole story of a centers effectiveness

i try to look at WS and ortg/drtg differential

 

So Leonard is a +9 on o/d rating and Dwight Howard is a +5. Does that make Leonard better?

 

dont be dense

you use them like any other stat, to tell you a PART of the story

 

games in which nards plays 20 mpg

http://www.basketball-reference.com...t&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=mp

 

There is no story with Leonard yet. All we've got is an awkward opening sentence.