Date ended: Thursday August 24thNEW Topic: Whou do you take, Chris Paul or Dwight Howard.Rules: Keep it clean, No need to throw put instults and harmful remarks. You guys can just go at it unti the due date, Debate like crazy. If you both agree with the topic, See if you can prove your opponents points wrong, If you agree to the extent where there is nothing to debate about, Then say something and we will get you a new topic.Good luck.
Dwight HowardAs incredible as Paul is, you have to take the superstar big man over the superstar guard. They are both going to be franchise players and superstars, but the talent level at the PG position is lightyears ahead of the talent level of big men in the NBA. Big men have basically fell off since the 90's and guys like Howard, Bosh, etc. are the "new-breed bigs."Howard has already proven he is going to be an incredible player. His 2nd year in the league, out of high school, he came in 2nd in the entire NBA in rebounding. That's impressive, but that's not all. He is a defensive force, which is tough to find nowadays, especially in young big men. Adding to his phenominal rebounding skills (at BOTH ends) and his defensive presence, he is a freak athlete. I saw a picture last year where he literally kissed the rim. He explodes when he wants to, and not only is he athletic, he is "big." By "big" I mean muscular. He hsd REALLY filled out and added a tremendous amount of muscle to his athletic frame since comming into the league. Which brings me to my next point...Hard work. Look how far his game and his body has come, after just 2 years in the NBA (again, out of high school). He works hard. He is also a good kid and a guy that does everything, and more, he is told. Don't get me wrong, Paul is an exceptional player that can put up Jason Kidd-like numbers, and he also has a good head on his shoulders and is a leader, but you have to take a superstar big man over a superstar guard.
I agree with your explaining that talent at the PG spot is light years ahead than the talent at the C spot, but I'm taking Chris Paul. Paul can do everything as a point guard, he can score, he can pass, he can rebound. I was even suprised at his rebounding number considering the fact that he's barely 6'0. There are tons of PGs out there in the NBA that may seem like a true PG because of their numbers. When people see Andre Miller's apg, they go crazy and say he's a true PG. First off, Denver's offense is fast-tempo. They like to run-an-gun. So obviously when you're the PG of that offense you're going to get loads of assists. However, Miller doesnt fit the type of fundamental PG Chris Paul is. And when I'm talking about fundamental PGs, the name Jason Kidd pops into my head. There a very few of those type of PGs, and I dont mean by talent. I mean by fundamentals. Paul also has that leadership factor. He and Byron Scott helped turn around the Hornets. And by doing that, leadership comes into the discussion here. He is a good vocal leader, and Dwight, is just too passive vocally. You dont see the type of leadership in him as you do in Paul. Howard is great defensively, but offensively he still has lots of room to improve. For example, he needs to develop a jumper. Because if you want to be a domination big man, you have to dominate inside as well as outside. If Howard even had that leadership instinct inside of him, then I'd take him over Paul any day of the week. But the key to winning is: leadership and defense. Paul has one, Howard has the other.
Well for one, I hope Paul has more vocal leadership qualities than Howard. He is a PG, and the PG's job is to run the team and set the offense. Paul is a guy that also went to college for 2 years and developed leadership skills and maturity while at Wake Forest. Howard, on the other hand, is a big man comming out of high school. He wasn't required to ever express any type of leadership qualities in high school, you kidding me? His coach was probably gazed by his talents and just sat back and told him to dominate the game by himself. Paul on the other hand, has 2 years of NCAA basketball under his belt and was REQUIRED to be a leader and run the team. Howard went from study hall to the pros. Much different.And if you are going to knock on Howards offensive game, which is valid, why didn't you care to pick apart any of Paul's weaknesses? From what I remember, Paul shot under 30% from beyond the arc last year, he gets lost in screens at times, and he sometimes loses control in the paint on the way up for a layup. I mean I completely agree that Howard needs to work on the offensive end, but you can't argue he definitely improved from his rookie year, increasing his scoring average by 4-5 points.And to counter your argument that "to be a domination big man, you have to dominate inside as well as outside." - how about Shaq? If you lowered the hoop 3 feet (eye-level) Shaq would still toss up bricks from 12 feet away.Also note that Howard might not have the total grasp of the low-post game yet, but he plays smart. He shoots a high percentage (I believe it was around 55% this year) and he is comming along. He plays smart and he knows he isn't the greatest offensive player yet, but he uses his high basketball IQ to realize that and only take good shots. Conclusion - 55% shooting (or something around 55%).
Howard already has 2 years of NBA experience under his belt. I agree Howard was helpless just coming into a situation in Orlando with all the media crap of Stevie Francis, Hill's injury, etc. But now that he's grown he should be able to lead the Magic now, along with Jameer Nelson. Hill isnt there on the court to be a leader most of the time, so Howard needs to step up and lead his team vocally if the Magic want to become a playoff contender for once. Simple as that. Paul doesnt need to be an oustide threat for the Hornets right now. They just aqquired Peja as their 3-pt threat and Bobby Jackson can come in for 20 mpg and certianly make an impact from the perimeter. Dont forget Janerro Pargo either, shooting 38% from the perimeter isnt bad either. The Hornets dont want Paul to take 3s at such a young age in his NBA career, it could harm his game overall as a PG and the word 'chucker' would be labeled right on him. What he's doing right now for NO is fine with Byron Scott. Howard has increased his scoring average but still 90% of those points are just garbage points inside, so that doesnt really add to your argument at all. If you mean by Howard is more aggressive on offense, then I agree with that statement. Shaq at least has a back-to-basket game, he can still throw in hook shots from 8-10 ft out because of his strength and size. He doesnt have any jumper whatsoever, but he still can be efficent from 8-10 ft out. Every big man has a high FG percentage because most of their games is close to the basket. That stat is very misleading, because you think he plays smart but when all he does is throw in big, powerful dunks. Therefore it adds up to his FG percentage.
Very true about the situation in Orlando, but that's not what this is really about. It's about who you would pick of the 2 to start a franchise. And I know Howard has 2 years of NBA experience, but he was out of high school and Paul has 2 years of NCAA experience, plus a Rookie of the Year award. Paul came into the league more ready for the NBA game, Howard did not (as much as Paul) but he produced his rookie year because of his physical gifts. I say 1 year of NBA experience (comming straight from HS) is equal to 2 years of NCAA experience playing for an organized basketball team. OK, so the recent acquisitions the Hornets have made (Peja, Jackson, Pargo.. when he plays) helps cover up Paul's difficiencies from 3 point land. But I don't care if Paul as Ray Allen, Peja, Korver, and Dirk on his team - his outside shooting is STILL a weakness. Just because he has a couple outside threats to cover up his ineffectiveness from the outside doesn't mean the weakness just goes away.Paul could never be a chucker, don't even say that. I am not saying he has to go out and shoot 3's like Baron Davis, but you can't argue that his outside shooting is a weakness that he needs to correct. Paul is not a player that could ever become a chucker because of his style of play. Chucking PG's, like Baron, have the midset "score, make a highlight pass, stuff the stat sheet." Paul's mindset is "create for others, be the playmaker, do whatever it takes to win." BIG difference. If, and when, Paul continues to become a better shooter, it is not going to even think of becomming a "chucker." But again, just because he has good shooters around him doesn't mean it's ok to just hide his weakness. Shaq has the hook, but he is not very effective from 10 feet out. No way in hell. If you keep Shaq out of the paint (obviously an incredibly difficult task) he is not very effective at all. If he takes 8 shots from 10 feet out in a game he is due to make about 3. Very true, but the fact that he is improving his FG% while taking more shots is good. And he does play smart, he's not just a power finisher. If he doesn't have a clear shot at the basket he doesn't force it often, he kicks it back out. That's smart play.
Let me ask you this. If Paul had an NBA ready game and Howard didnt, then why did Howard make the jump from High School to the Pros if his game wasnt NBA ready? Shouldnt Dwight have gone to college if he didnt have an NBA ready game? Also, I'm not saying that just because other players on Paul's team helps make up for Paul's weaknesses from the perimeter, I'm saying that Paul does not need to be a 3-pt shooter for N.O. Jason Kidd is one of the best PGs in the NBA (still is) and isnt necessarily a great shooter, either. Ok, one of Paul's main weaknesses is shooting. If Paul didnt have the options on his team that he has right now then he would be a younger version of Baron Davis. Let's face it. But because Paul has good options to go to now he doesnt THINK he should be involved more offensively. And he shouldnt. Because being a playmaker like Paul leads to team success, and it makes everyone effective and happy with their roles. A PG is to set up your teamates with good, crisp passes. You can say that Allen Iverson and Gilbert Arenas play PG and they like to shoot the ball. BUT, they're not PGs. That's the thing, they're both trapped in a PG's body because of their size (which I really dont think is a factor at all, because you guys like Dwyane Wade and Ben Wallace proving everyone wrong). First of all, 10 ft out is not out of the paint. Also, I never said Shaq would be effective out of the paint. Did you read my post? With Shaq's size, strength, and power he has the ability to score from the outside (not out of the paint, though) and his game isnt all about dunks and power. He has the hook shots, which is a part of his offensive game. Besides, smaller guys usually guard him all the time so with the height advantage he has over them I dont see why he couldnt make some hook shots from 8-10 ft out. I dont know about what you said right here, and I dont think its that effective in this argument. I havent seen enough of Howard to see him do that. BUT - Howard should be involved more in the offense, though. He needs to get more touches. He should be able to create for himself in the paint, just one-on-one. If he does this more and more often, he'll have more confidence in himself and that will lead to being one of the greatest players in the future.
Well I didn't say Howard's game was not ready period, but I did say Paul came in with more experience and was better prepared for the NBA, and as you saw he was unbelievable putting up 17/5/8 and winning ROY. Should Dwight have gone to college? Maybe, maybe not. But that doesn't really support much because Kwame Brown, Gerald Green, Martell Webster, JR Smith, Sebastian Telfair, Ndudi Ebi, Qyntel Woods, etc. etc. etc. all should have went to college. The only real exception so far has been LeBron. I mean Howard came in and put up a double-double, but his offensive game was not good comming into the league at all, and like you said it still needs a lot of work.Jason Kidd is not a great shooter, correct, but he can knock them down. He shoots over 35% from 3. And either way, even if Kidd was a horrid shooter, who cares? I don't care if another PG is a bad shooter, this is based on Chris Paul and Chris Paul only. And the bottom line is he needs to improve his jumper. Again, 100% disagreed. If Chris Paul had average shooters around him, he would NEVER be a younger version of Baron Davis. Not even close, guy. That's not his game. His game isn't shooting the 3 and his game isn't taking on the scoring load. Baron Davis is a chucker and a show-boater, Chris Paul's game and midset is the complete opposite. Davis likes to score 20, dish 7 assists, and put on a good show for the crowd. Paul likes to get the job done, take it to the basket, take good shots, and make his teammates better. Baron Davis is and always has been a score-first PG, Chris Paul is and always has been/will be a playmaker. Improving his shot does not make him Baron Davis 2.0. It makes him a more deadly player with even more of a complete game. Stop comparing Paul and Davis - two totally different players and two totally different midsets on the court. 10 feet is out of the paint where Shaq likes to linger with the ball (on the blocks). Howard has size, strength, and power too. And since when is "scoring from the outside" considered scoring in the paint? LOL wtf?And about Howard's offensive arsinal, it will come. He needs another year or two and he will be putting up 20-22 ppg. How is it not effective in this argument? You said that his FG% only looks high because he's all close to the basket, and you said just because he shoots 55% doesn't mean he plays smart. Then I countered that by saying he does play smart because he doesn't force things inside. How is that not valid? Then what do you think you are doing trying to make points about his game?
LeBron is the only exception? So Kobe should have gone to college? How about TMac? And KG? There are tons of other players that you're leaving out players in this discussion that have blossomed into great NBA players today making the jump from High School to the Pros. There are two sides of this argument right here, and you're ignoring one of them. Paul has tons of time to improve his outisde game. Keep in mind that he's only 21 and he ISN'T a SG. If Paul was a SG and he didnt have a jumper whatsoever, THEN I'd be a bit concerned but he isnt, and if he was he'd be exactly like JR Smith. I was only saying Kidd is a bad shooter because he and Paul have similar styles of play. Both are fundamental PGs, and I was comparing them. Did I say that if Paul had average shooters around him, he'd be another Baron Davis? I said that if Paul didnt have the good shoters around him he has today he'd be more relied on to score the ball in clutch situations. It's pressure, pressure as a young rookie just coming into the league. LeBron has experienced the same thing, but fortunately Paul hasnt because he has good options around him. You keep putting words into my mouth that I never said. Sorry, I should have rephrased it better. I mean like Shaq is still in the paint, but he's away from the basket. He's not up close to the basket all the time. He'll be backing you down, and trying to get a hook shot up in the hoop. But the thing is, Howard is too young and needs to realize that he needs to take over now if Orlando wants to become a playoff contender. Because there's no way in blue hell that Hill's going to average 20 ppg again - or that JJ Redick will make an impact right away - or that Nelson should do all the work. No, they need to work as a team, and offensively Dwight needs to be more confident rather just passing up the ball, because he has a better chance making the basket up close than Turkoglu chucking a shot 30 ft from the hoop. Agreed, in 2 years. Do you watch Howard play on a regular basis like you watch the Celtics play? Bringing up a point like that where Howard doesnt force things is where I have to see it happen for myself. He probably does do that, but he needs to be more confident and agressive on offense anyways. He may play smart, but he should know that he doesnt have any limitations at the same time. I've seen Howard play occassionally. Because the Wizards play the Magic 4 times a year and he always puts on a good show for some reason. I have a good idea of how he plays his game, I'm not clueless.
Um.. yea Kobe/T-Mac/KG/JO all should have went to college. Note that all 4 of these guys took a few years to come into their own. If I remember correctly Kobe and T-Mac both averaged something like 7 ppg their rookie year, and Kobe didn't really break out until his 3rd year, T-Mac not until really his 3rd year as well. Then he exploded in his 4th year in the league (after he left Toronto to go to Orlando). They didn't come into the league as stars. About KG, he started off at a reasonable pace, sure, but it took him 2 years to become a player teams have to look out for. And JO, he was a late-bloomer, it wasn't until his 5th year in the NBA before he averaged even double figures in the league. His 1st 4 years (which could have been spent at college) were averages around 4-5 ppg.So don't tell me I'm ignoring the other side of the argument when I just proved that all those players probably should have went to college, and took 2-3 (or more in O'Neal's case) to actually have a "good" season in the NBA. Paul has tons of time to improve his jumper.. very true. But um... are you forgetting Howard has tons of time to improve his offensive game as well? Why didn't you ever mention that, then just say Paul has a lot of time to improve. Howard is younger than Paul, man. If your answer for Paul's poor shooting is "he has a lot of time to improve", then couldn't the same exact thing be said about Howard's offensive game? Can I get a hell yea?OK so now are you saying that if you are not a SG you don't need to be able to shoot? Just because Paul is a PG and a playmaker does not mean he doesn't need to be able to shoot well, just because he's not a 2-guard. That was a terrible comment. Um, actually you did say Paul would be a "young version of Baron Davis" if he didn't have any good shooters around him. I will quote you: ^^^ That is your quote man. Don't hide your previous comments man. You put those words in your own mouth, don't accuse me of doing that, when I just countered your argument with your own damn quote lol. 1. Shaq may leave the floor from 8-10 feet away on his hooks, but he also leans in towards the basket on them.2. Howard is beginning to take over. He has totally re-built his build/muscle definition in 2 years, he's taken on more of the scoring load this year, and he's becomming the face of the franchise. He is on the verge of breaking out for 20/10+ season. If he doesn't do it this year I would put all my money that he will by 2008.3. Redick will make an impact right away, and has a legit shot at taking over the starting SG role. He will come in right away and become a valuable shooter.4. Again, Howard's confidence IS building, and you can easily see that by just watching him last year. He is more confortable and patient than he was his rookie year and he is taking smart shots. You have no idea how much basketball I watch. I will admit, I am overly obsessed with basketball. I would say that I saw about 30 Magic games last year (2 of my friends have NBA TV and my uncle has League Pass and is from Orlando). Sometimes I even download full games. So no I don't see all 82 Magic games like I do the Celtics, but I saw about close to half the season last year.And again, you shouldn't even still be attempting to argue about Howard's game, seeing as you keep saying you havn't seen much of him. Watching 4 Wizards/Magic games doesn't give you a full grasp of his game. And as of last year, he DID have limitations on offense. The same limitations you yourself were making a case for (back-to-basket game and mid-range touch).
1. Kobe - Was drafted then traded right away to a loaded Lakers team, and with the recent aqquistion of Shaq you could tell a kid coming straight from high school aint going to make a much of an impact with Shaq's ego. They had other options as well, Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, etc. Dont forget also that coach Del Harris refused to play Kobe at all and Kobe didnt even play one second 'till the 5th game of the '96-97 season. Besides, Kobe was VERY mature as a rookie as a rookie and it even seemed like you went to college for four years because of his maturity.2. TMac - Agreed. The Raptors were a new team and sucked balls so they could have used TMac's scoring right away. The college experience definitely could have helped him. Still, 3 years isnt that long. Other players coming out of HS take 5-6 years to fully adjust to the NBA style of play. 3. KG - Without a doubt you have to admit that KG suprised a ton of people coming into Minnesota. With his body and skills at THAT time in his career, his skills were very raw and people thought in 6 years or so is when he will finally dominate the game. KG was like Amare coming into the league, he looked like a gift from the NBA's heaven of big men, but he still had a lot to work on and suprisingly made an impact during his rookie year. By his 2nd year, he started to put up numbers just like that.4. JO - JO was screwed in Portland by the coaching staff. He averaged 4-5 PPG 'cause the dude didnt get ANY pt whatsoever! After 4 freaking years in Portland, they never even gave him 20 MPG in any of his years in Portland. You DID ignore the reasons. I just pointed them out right there. ^^ Howard needs to improve his offensive game soon if Orlando wants to become a playoff contender. They havent made any improvements to their team AT ALL for a loooong time. Howard doesnt have the supporting cast Paul has so he is more forced to dominate on offense. Besides, Orlando only averages 95 PPG, they could use a lot more of Howard's scoring. He does have time but if the Magic want to become a playoff contender for a change, then he needs to realize that he has flaws to fix up in order to do that. Paul has flaws, too. But N.O. has greatly improved the Hornets over the off-season and they have a great group of players. Paul can count on Peja, West, Jackson, Mason, Simmons, Armstrong, and Chandler, on offense and defense. Howard can count on Nelson, Hill (only when healthy), and maybe J.J. Redick. Milicic is just coming into his own and starting to get familiar with his skills in Orlando so he still cant be counted on for anything except for blocked shots, really. Yeah, it was. My bad. I just dont think that Paul needs to improve his perimeter game by a lot.. 1. 2. Again, for Howard, the sky's the limit. He has all the potential in the world. I am just pointing out he needs to be more aggressive on offense. That's all. He'll be more effective on the offensive end and he'll have even more confidence in his game.3. Redick has back problems apparently, and got into a little trouble with the law. I really dislike that pick by Orlando..Brewer was available and they could have just stole him. I really thought Brewer was going go to the Magic. Imagine that young core: Nelson - Howard - Milicic - Brewer. Brewer would've been the better fit and if the Magic wanted to improve their scoring from the perimeter, BS. They already have Hedo Turkoglu and Jameer Nelson knocking down the treys. Arroyo, Garrity, and Diener can still hit them, too. 4. Howard doesnt take any 'shots', his game is all about power dunks. Well, I'm not blessed like you to get to watch NBA TV all the time, so..I have a disadvantage here. I've seen all of the FIBA World Championship games (including the exhibition games), and Howard has played in all of them. Am I right? I've gotten to observe Howard play in his limited playing time, so I have an idea of what his game is like. Great post defender.If he's getting the ball right up close near the basket on a feed by Paul, he's throwing it down.Takes up space in the paint which helps penetrators on team USA like Wade and Paul. Sets good screens, mainly because of his body.That's all I've seen from him lately. That's a decent amount, I think.
Having just Eddie Jones does not excuse you from playing. Kobe was the only backup SG they had back then from what I can remember. And about Kobe not playing as much as some would like, maybe that's because he wasn't really ready then? Ever think about that?Maturity is great to have, especially as a kid comming out of HS going to the pros, but maturity does not make up for the fact that he could/should have went to college for a year or 2 to refine his game, and come into the league as a starting caliber player that could have made noise right from the get-go. His maturity basically has nothing to do with his game as a rookie. If he was THAT mature, he would have gotten an education. EXACTLY! This refutes your entire argument! You were trying to say LeBron isn't the only exception and that a lot of kids come out of HS ready to contribute big. But you saying the quoted statement above does nothing more/less than help MY argument. Hmmm.. ever start to think that maybe it wasn't the coaching staff's fault? The reason he didn't play much in his 1st 4 years in the league (in Portland) was because he was still raw and not really ready to handle heavy minutes. Trust me, if any coach thinks a player has improved and needs to get into the rotation more, he will play that talent (in any sports.. unless that players' name is Terrell Owens). What the hell are you talking about? I would love for you to name the reasons that I left out. And how could you possibly quote my text that says nothing more than "So don't tell me I'm ignoring the other side of the argument when I just proved that all those players probably should have went to college, and took 2-3 (or more in O'Neal's case) to actually have a "good" season in the NBA." and point to it with arrows and say you pointed out reasons I left out.All that statement said was that players should have went to college and take a while to have "good" seasons in the NBA. NAME ONE THING IN THAT STATEMENT THAT YOU "POINTED OUT THINGS I LEFT OUT." And if you remember correctly, in my last post I pointed things YOU left out, not the other way around. Howard needs to improve a lot for Orlando to become a playoff contender - yes. But so does Jameer Nelson, JJ Redick, Darko Milicic. Oh yea, and the guys upstairs need to do more to get them a true perimiter star, because even if Howard puts up 25/14 next year, that team is not getting past Miami, Detroit, Chicago, New Jersey, and probably Cleveland. Probably not Indiana either. So Orlando's plans aren't to become a contender next year, why? Because they don't have the talent to do so yet. They need to wait a few extra years until their talent pans out (or maybe some of it won't pan out).Oh, and by the way, thank you. You stated here that Orlando hasn't done much to improve their team in the last couple years, and New Orleans has done a great job - bingo! Of course Orlando isn't going anywhere anytime soon. You keep saying they have to be contenders soon.. well in another year or 2 they have a bunch of cap room and trust me, they will make runs at a lot of good players. By then they will have a pretty good understanding of how Howard/Nelson will turn out as players. So, you can't blame Howard for Orlando's subpar play and say "he has to improve for this team to be contenders", when in reality Tim Duncan couldn't win a title with a supporting cast of Nelson, Turkoglu, Battie, Redick, Bogans, Arroyo, injured Hill, Darko, Dooling, etc. But... at the same time also note that Orlando just missed the playoffs last year and made an INCREDIBLE run at the end of the season, lead by Howard. Give Howard another couple years to flourish into a superstar, let Nelson improve, then go out and get a big money wing - Orlando will be one of the top teams in the East within these next 5 years. Book it. When you shoot under 30% from 3-point land and don't have an overly consistant mid-range jumper (with a defender on you), I think that calls for plenty improvement. 1. OK, maybe it sounded like I was pulling excuses out of my ass about Shaq's hook - BUT it's true! Shaq's hook is like this man - back down from the block, lean in and push, jump, lean, release. Shaq DOES indeed lean in on his hooks. When he jumps off the ground from 9 feet away, he's probably releasing that hook about 6 feet away really. Shaq never has/never will have any type of reliable shot outside the paint.2. Exactly, he will do it. And so will Paul (improve his jumper).3. Redick was an excellent pick by Orlando and a very good fit. So he had some back issues, he's clearned to play now. "Trouble with the law" sounds worse than his situation really was. He was a little tipsy and got pulled over. Brewer would have been terrific too, no argument there, but Redick definitely improves their perimiter scoring. And about those shooters - Hedo is one, and Nelson can knock them down (but isn't a super threat from downtown. He will spend more time setting up the offense and penetrating). Arroyo is solid, and Garrity/Diener will barely ever play, so that means nothing.4. There you go once again! How in the world can you say Howard's complete offensive game is nothing more than dunks, when you only saw him play 4 times last year? You don't even know, man. If you havn't witnessed his game or seen any of him, stop trying to criticize his game. 90% everything you have said about Howard is almost based on things other people say about Howard. Howard's touch is getting better, and softer. He doesn't necessarily have a go-to move on the block, but he gets <u>shots</u> off over his defenders.And yes, you do have a disadvantage here. If you havn't really seen Howard play (unless it's those token 4 times per year v. Washington), then I suggest you don't try to make judgements about his game. That's all. Wrong. FIBA is much much different than the NBA game and like you said, Howard gets limited playing time. So you have gotten to see Howard on the court for this team, but his role and play is MUCH different. You have to watch him play in the NBA, against the best competition in the world (not soft big men from Italy or whatever), getting real minutes, being the face of a franchise. Also, with Team USA, Howard doesn't even try to score. Obviously that's because he's playing with a team full of stars, but you don't get a chance to get a full grasp of his offensive game by watching him with Team USA.EDIT: I had a typo (Kone instead of Kobe lol, and Hwoward instead of Howard).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zards @ Aug 24 2006, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Shouldnt this be over by now? It's August 24th.</div>Got nothing else to say?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Aug 24 2006, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Got nothing else to say? </div>I have a shitload to say. :dribble: It's just that today's the deadline.
The deadline is at the end of today... so you guys still have the rest of the day today to debate. The judges will post their decisions sometime tomorrow, and if you guys make a post tomorrow, we will ignore everything you had to say in that post while we are in the process of making our decisions.
