And there you have it. That the individual, regardless of belief is accountable for their own actions. That the ideology isn't what provokes evil deeds. It's the actual person, leader and followers.
Gain? Well, that's based on perspective. I've remembered hearing Dawkins refer to atheism as a form of reward. To be free from the boundaries of religious laws. With that said, I think every ideology has something to gain from it. I also think all ideology has something to exploit as well. My reference to atheism and communism was a prime example of an ideology based from an atheistic approach, to brainwash the peoples to do away with all forms of religion. And I think its foolish for anyone to think atheism isn't immune to exploitation. Maybe you aren't foolish enough to fall for the games set by those that use atheism for their personal gain and power, but there are many who are. Just like the ideology of government influence like the democrats and republicans. Just like the fans of the Blazers or Lakers having some personal reward with adopting their team as their own.
I know.... Sorry. I just read some of the tracts of atheism and see no difference than those of religious intent. Check this out... http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismatheiststheism/a/BecomeAtheist.htm Then read this http://comingintheclouds.org/tracts/pdf/areyouready.pdf They are both using the same type of advertisement to promote others to believe in what they believe in. If one man believes in something and doesn't invite others to share their belief; then it's just an opinion that only holds value to the individual. The moment that man decides to use their ideology to influence others to adopt their beliefs; then it becomes an assembly. The assembly is then labeled a movement. The movement becomes contagious and more people adopt this state of mind. The more that adopts that state will become a church, government or association. All of those are the aftermath of the one man seeking power; either it being power of influence, government or power to take a belief they believe is wrong away from people.
Ideology can provoke evil deeds, but with religion there's a lot of crazy stuff people conveniently ignore, this allows them to be fruitful in society. If you take religious texts literally we wouldn't be able to have a rational conversation, but if you block out some of the nonsense you can still be a productive member of mankind. Sin embargo Communism is like clockwork, it fails all the time always no matter what people do. The same cannot be said about many other things.
Never said communism isn't a failed ideology. In fact I agree with you 100%. What I'm trying to explain is that communism is an adaptation of a form of atheism. Doesn't mean it's atheism. Just like a baptist isn't the same as a catholic. They believe in the same god and Jesus; but are far from being the same.
Hell, in that case, isn't the US government an atheistic regime? Not that the people in this thread are rah rah pro US Government... until 2016.
I guess we can agree to disagree then. When a government publicly prohibits their people to believe in God; then it isn't separated. This would be in the same example of Iran being of Muslim faith.
United States is a republic that allows freedom of speech and religion. Even if the religion is without God.
See I disagree. Communism is an ideology. It became government the moment the people overthrew the government. With your logic; the Roman Catholic Church running things during the dark ages wasn't religion. It was just a government. Or when the Taliban overthrew the communist invasion in Afghanistan; their new rule was just government. Do you see where your point is going here?
None of your links establish your contention. You needn't get all muddled and confused about historical isms. There's nothing in "there is insufficient evidence to take gods seriously" (the atheist disposition) that "kill the religious" would then follow. To the contrary, "Kill the religious" would follow from something along these lines: p1) It's good to kill those who stand in our way. p2) The religious stand in our way. C1) It would be good to kill the religious. Is it possible you are assuming something not in play? For instance, some religious people who believe that ethical behavior is only "right behavior" by virtue of it coming from the authoritative 'lips of god,' also believe that without 'god the authority' there is no way of determining which behavior to value, thus atheists, lacking an authority, also lack a basis for any ethics. And thus, behave badly as a result of their atheism (understood erroneously as the belief that god does not exist) i.e., without an authority atheists do whatever is convenient to their project.
Maybe you might have overlooked this post I made earlier in the thread. You should read the translated letter of the Soviet Union and religion. and Anything is possible. Even God. That could be an opinion of a generalized theist. My personal opinion is many atheists I know have a great sense of morality. But, like any ideology, there are those that exploit or do evil deeds; by taking advantage of those sheep that blindly follow. Atheism included.... My advice is for all to question every ideology. That if you question, you learn. And you wont get the cookie cutter debates that the atheist and theists outline for their followers. You can actually debate using your own noggin'. Much healthier!
