<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Sep 9 2006, 09:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I wasn't calling you dumb Nitro I was saying you AND dumb or bandwagon Heat fans...Wade has been clutch but he wouldn't have done much more with that Cavs team and LeBron would already have 1 or two championships. As for this thread, no one is arguing that Wade isn't better here but LeBron should be mentioned because of what he did at the end of the season. He showed that he can do it do.And no it wasn't a travel. </div>Thanks, appreciate it If it wasn't for Wade's injury, he would ahve 2 championships right now. I never said Wade would do more with the Cavs, and no one knows what bron could do with the Heat. All we know is what we have seen so far, and that is Wade is one of the best and most clutch players in the NBA and can go on scoring flurries in clutch like few others (Kobe and T-Mac). Bron ha sstruggled more than any other superstar I know in clutch situations up until 3/4 of the way through his 3rd season. He still hasn't shown me more than Wade, Kobe, Dirk, T-Mac, AI, Pierce, Nash and others in the clutch.He jump stopped, took a step, then another step with opposite foot....it was a travel EDIT: LMAO, tells it all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGiBXYJiTF8
I bet you most people would agree with that. Lebron is 21 years old and IMO is better. By the time kobe declines lebron will take over as the best player in the nba. Not wade. What's a jumpshot to you? I don't consider 13 foot jumpers as a jumpshot. Most of wade's points came off lay ups, 12 foot jumpers or dunks. I don't consider that to be legit jumpshot. The only time in that pistons series i remember wade actually hit a couple of legit jumpshots was in the 4th in game 2 and a little period in game 3. In those periods of times Wade was actually hitting 16-20 footers. In game 5 Wade's jumpshot wasn't money. In game 6 his whole offense was missing [and yes he does have an excuse].So it really depends on what you call a jump shot. I call a legit jumpshot from 15-23 foot. That is why i say Wade's jumpshot needs to be worked on. His range is limited. In the limited time he played he showed he was a better defender then wade Lebron was forced to take long jumpers because the lane was shut down. The pistons had to focus on lebron only. Any team with one good perimeter defender and a shotblocker could've shut lebron out of the game. Their defense wasn't superb, they just played smart team defense. Shaq does make a huge difference We all saw what happened when you single covered shaq. Domination. If shaq got injured, wade would've had a tougher time attacking the rim. It's given. I agree though, wade was the reason why the heat won the championship. Alonzo mourning [even though he only averaged 3 points]. He's definently not a bonafide clutch player but i'd say his on the verge of becoming one. His play in the playoffs was something to behold.And stop crying about lebron's travel. If Refs call it evenly wade doesn't shoot 97 feethrows. Wade doesn't get the chance to send the game to ot from the line.
[quote name='Melo061' post='155170' date='Sep 10 2006, 01:29 AM']I bet you most people would agree with that. Lebron is 21 years old and IMO is better. By the time kobe declines lebron will take over as the best player in the nba. Not wade. [/quote]That is something time will tell, and you are not father time, stop acting like it. You don't know how good either will be in 5 years. Hell, both could be dead, we don't know. All I know is if you take Duncan and Kobe out of the league, I feel Wade is best player.W He can also hit 15-18ft jumpshots consistently, but he is money off of 12-15ft jumpers. If you don't consider that a jumper or some form of a jumpshot then i guess MJ was so extremely one-dimensional as well.... His jumpshot is fine up until the 18ft mark, and while he DOES need to get more consistent from farther out, I prefer his consistent midrange attack to Bron's inconsistent outside attack. Better man-to-man, but Wade is far better off ball and help defender. Again, depends on what you prefer as a better defender, but Wade was more productive in WC's, which was my original statement. FTR, I agree that Hinrich is better defender. You just proved 2 of my points. LeBron was forced to take jumpers, not necassarily long jumpers. He could have gotten an isolation to the 15ft mark, and took a 15-18ft jumper over Prince. That is what Wade mostly did vs the Pistons, and it was successful. Instead, Bron was forcing the issue, and either taking too long of jumpers or forcing the drive. That is why I consider Wade a better scorer, he has a reliable 2nd option to his driving ability, Bron is inconsistent.And yes, Pistons play/played (don't know without Ben) very smart D. They know how to beat teams. That's how they beat the Lakers in the Finals, they let Shaq go off by single teaming him and guarding everyone else. They did it against Miami 2 years ago, and it somewhat worked. But when Wade improved his jumper and caught fire against them, they were forced to put more pressure on Wade, which gave teammates more open shots. If Wade gets his 30PPG through 5 games but on 50% shooting instead of 70%, they probably lose the series. Yeah, he averaged 2PPG, and .5RPG more. A FAR cry from what the Heat planned on him getting and what everyone is used to. That put much more pressure on wade to perform his best, and he did. His play in playoffs was great, but against the Wizards Wade posted similar numbers 2 years back without Shaq and with Larry Hughes as a defender. 31/8/7/2 on 54% shooting to 36/8/6 on 51% shooting. I'm not crying about anything. I am not like f*cking protesting the NBA's refs like you are with the Wade call in game 5 of Finals, which was more of a foul than some of the calls Bron got in the Wizards series. And again, even if the Finals never happenned, Wade's play throughout the years is incredible in cltuch and taking over games. Can't say same for Bron if they call that travel. That's what gets me pissed, people consider him clutch now because of those 2 plays in the playoffs. Before that that facet of his game was in the mud. Before the Finals (which you can't really argue because a lot of what he did wasn't amazing because of that foul in game 5, he tied that game to go to OT, he made game winning pass to GP, tied that game with FT, stole inbound pass to win game, game winning rebounding in game 6, 40PPG through 4 wins, etc...) Wade was still considered one of the most clutch players in league.
I was assuming everyone stays healthy. If everyone stays healthy i believe lebron will be better. Why? Because he's 21 year old superstar. He's 2nd in effeciency in the nba. He can do everything on offense and i mean everything. He's definently the most complete offensive player in the league. He's putting up numbers that only the big O can challenge. . Since both their defenses aren't great, i'll give lebron the nod. I can't comment on the season because i didn't watch him enough. But during the pistons series he was money from 12-15. He was not money from 15-18. He was just during the nets series. In the nba finals he would only make 15-18 jumpers when he was hot. It wasn't consistent like you say. For example in game 3 in the furious come back wade was making jumpers like he was kobe. Before that quarter he's jumpshot wasn't falling. In game 5 Wade's jumpshot was off for the majority of the game. Even he's reliable 12-15 game failed him for the most part. Is it a trend? I don't know. But his 15-18 is definently not consistent. Consistency in my books is what MJ was with his jumpshot.Here's my conclusion on wade's jumpshot. He's 12-15 jumper is usually on. He's 15-18 jumpers are not consistent. If you don't believe me go check out the pistons series. There's a difference between what wade did and what lebron did. The pistons had to focuss on Lebron and lebron only. Lebron's teamates had not turned up for game 7 and the pistons with all their might shut down lebron. Lebron at times was actually forced to take those long jumpers. If the pistons played focused on wade only then wade's other teamates would kill them. The pistons during the game knew lebron's teamates were in an offensive flunk and didn't play honest D.The result? They held them to 61 points. Well the pistons of 2004 were a much much better defensive team then the pistons of 2005-2006. Larry brown's defensive schemes worked brillianty. His defensive schemes was able to shut down the best permiter defender in the league. That year they rewrote the defensive records. 5 games in a row they held teams to less then 70 points. Held pacers to two consecutive 65 point games. The pistons team of 04-05 does not touch the defensive intensity of the 03-04 team. No superstar swingman in the league would be able to break that team down in a series.Wade killed the pistons with his 12-15 jumper and him attacking the rim. He didn't own them through his 15-18 footer. I don't know what series you were watching. Maybe you're getting confused with the Nets series.
[quote name='Melo061' post='155209' date='Sep 10 2006, 04:08 AM']I was assuming everyone stays healthy. If everyone stays healthy i believe lebron will be better. Why? Because he's 21 year old superstar. He's 2nd in effeciency in the nba. He can do everything on offense and i mean everything. He's definently the most complete offensive player in the league. He's putting up numbers that only the big O can challenge. . Since both their defenses aren't great, i'll give lebron the nod.[/quote]Overall offensively I'll agree he posts the best stats, but I prefer Wade as a scorer. then you got all the intangibles....I just gotta give ti to Wade. If both had the same career accomplishments to this point, Bron would get the nod. His 15-18ft is consistent. When he gets to 18ft sometimes it is off, but from 12-18ft he is consistent. I watched many Heat games through the year, including all of the NJ/Pistons/Dallas series' games, and he was a consistent midrange jumpshooter. Not lights out like Kobe if you play Kobe one on one, but consistent. Umm, he shot fu*king 70% with 30PPG through first 5 games....he was consistent from EVERYWHERE outsid eof 3pt range. LeBron had the help with Z/Gooden/Hughes/etc..., but in final game Pistons put the clamp down, but in final game, because of the previous few games where his teammates did come to play, they loosened up the D on bron and made sure none of the role players scored. It worked. It would have been same thing for the Heat if it was not for Wade stunning the Pistons with his amazing play, considering he did much better than year before and how Kobe did in finals. This caused open shots for everyone, and an easy 6 game series. They were the same team, just different philosophies for beating the other team. It worked all the way up to the ECF, where Wade stunned them. The same plan that Brown used the year before backfired because A) Wade was not hurt, and B ) Wade improved his jumper and didn't have to get everything from driving.Again, he was at 70% for the series....he owned them from just about everywhere. Just watch the tapes on youtube, his jumper was on. And I would know if I was confusing it with the Nets series, as I went to game 3 of that series and watched every game very closely (hometown team). From the semi's to the Finals, his jumper was on from the top of the key-in.
2-4 game 1 4-11 game 2 7-9 game 3 .4-7 game 43-9 game 5 That's wade against the pistons from 15-18 foot. That equals to something like 42%. As for the other parts of your post, I'll respond to them tomorrow.
Try 50%- 20 for 40. Again, he isn't lights out from 15-18ft, but he is consistently good from that range and knows that is his limit. LeBron doesn't really know his limit, when he should be posting up or taking an easy 15ft jump shot he is taking a 20ft shot.Don't bother replying, because I am done with this. I feel Wade is better overall player when considering everything, and both of us agree he is better clutch and takeover player. End of story.
