Do you know how rare it is for one player to score 30 in a half. As I said, unless one of the 2 gets very hot (over 45pts or so) the other team will rarely double. If RJ and VC only take the shots because they are single teamed and have good %'s, defense will switch to zone and make them move around the ball, no double teaming needed. RJ doesn't take a million shots because he doesn't have to on a nightly basis, but he can get over 30 when VC isn't on and team is in trouble.
you said rj can score on every single coverage why can't he score 30 in two quarter since they're not doubling him ???
I never said on EVERY single coverage, of course he will naturally miss some shots, and will have off nights. But hitting the shots 50% of the time or more is really good. And as I said before, the only time the Nets don't win is when they don't get help inside. When that happens, especially against zone defense, it is twice as hard for the perimeter players/slashers to get their points. Nontheless, RJ still gets 20PPG on near 50% shooting, and his averages got better as season progressed (especially in playoffs).
First of all when a player gets that HOT you double team my friend, no questions asked...........with that kind of mentality a player like kobe can easily score 100 pts with your defensive philosophy.You do whatever it takes to get rid of the ball in his hands, no zone defense that ain't gonna cut it.Let me ask you why would care so much about what vince might do, if rj is scoring like crazy i get my second defender to him a.s.a.p. that's how basketball works, you don't let a player keep shooting especially when he's on a zone.
And I acknowledged if he gets hot they would have to double. But RJ and VC both know the Nets won't win if don't get other players their shots, specifically the big men on a zone. If the big men aren't getting it done on a zone, their driving ability is taken away and since neither of them are Kobe or T-Mac, they won't get 30pts in a half. And since VC needs his 20+ shots per game to become his most effective, RJ is somewhat limited in his FGA's. VC is a better scorer, and they don't get the same shot attempts. But back to your original point, RJ is certainly a good enough scorer to be double teamed. It just so happens he has 2 players that force defenses to play him one on one most of the time and he gets limited shots.
but if you put lamar odom in any system he creates mismatches right away;shooting forwards guards him, he can just post them up.power forward guards him, he can take them to the basket.so it's a mismatch all the time, now as a coach it's all up to you how your're gonna exploit it.you can't create the same mismatch problem with rj.
Mismatches don't make you a great player, it just gives you more oppertunities to succeede. For Lamar's whole career, he has been very inconsistent because he doesn't take the advantages he has. He is not agressive, he cannot carry a team, he cannot lead, etc... RJ, no matter the defense or who he plays with, will play very agressively and consistently give you 20-23PPG/6-7RPG/4APG. Not to mention RJ is the better defender, scorer, clutch player, and IMO overall just a more refined, better player despite not having as much talent or the body as Lamar.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Sep 7 2006, 04:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Mismatches don't make you a great player, it just gives you more oppertunities to succeede. For Lamar's whole career, he has been very inconsistent because he doesn't take the advantages he has. He is not agressive, he cannot carry a team, he cannot lead, etc... RJ, no matter the defense or who he plays with, will play very agressively and consistently give you 20-23PPG/6-7RPG/4APG. Not to mention RJ is the better defender, scorer, clutch player, and IMO overall just a more refined, better player despite not having as much talent or the body as Lamar.</div>At last, you see where im coming from..........that's what this is all about having a better opportunity to win it all. You said it yourself, you'll have more chances to succeed if you're with odom !!!
Wrong, I never said you have more oppertunities to win with Odom. I said Odom himself has more oppertunities to be a great player than RJ, but after 7 seasons still hasn't done it. He has never been around a winning enviorment, and after 7 seasons you still have absolutely no idea what you are getting from him on a nightly basis. And even when he has a good game, RJ gives you a game just as good/better every single night, and he has been in a winning culture/ is a leader/great clutch player/extremely talented as well. Just because you have more talent doesn't mean you are a better player. That is like saying Odom is better than Larry Bird because Bird had less overall talent than Odom. Bird was great because of his knowledge of the game and how to use every single drop of talent he had to its max, and he played hard every night. To a lesser extent same is with RJ, he uses what he has much better than Odom, and has all the intangibles in his favor. No doubt RJ is a better player because of it than Odom. I don't see how you could look up to your main guy if he is inconsistent, has never been around a winning enviorment, isn't clutch, and can't take over a game.
I think we can come to the conclusion thatAs a 2nd or 3rd optionLamar odom1st optionRJAnd i agree Nitro, lamar has more talent in his pinky finger then some players have in their whole bodies. I see Lamar's struggles as he not knowing how to apply himself. This season will be the first in a while that Lamar will be in a stable situation with the same coach and same offense. He's understanding of the triangle grew and by the end of the season as a i said, Lamar was picking the spots where he was the most lethal at. His cuts even though at times redundant got better.His execution improved. His shooting improved. He was agressive, posterized Theo Ratliff twice in one game.This comparision aint fair because Lamar was in his first season in the most complicated offense the world has seen. A fairer comparision would be Lamar post allstar against RJ . Lamar post allstar averages 16/9/6 on 53%shooting whilst being a consistent 2nd option.
Melo, I still feel it all depends on what team they are on when it comes to who is the better 2nd/3rd option. But a player like RJ, who has the ability to be a first option, has a winning attitude and history, and is willing to defer, I feel is a better fit for most teams as 2nd option than Odom. But as I said, on the Lakers Odom is perfect for that role.
I have read some of the statements on this topic but dont have time to read them all. So please forgive me if I repeat something.I would rather have RJ on my team, and would have no second thoughts about it. Despite the rebounding numbers, RJ is a better defender bottom line. The only reason Odom's rebounding numbers are better is because he plays the power forward. Rebounding numbers are really besides the fact. They dont tell you how good of a defender is, they just tell you how well they position themselves at the time the shot is going up. RJ is a better one on one defender and a better scorer. Posting up- OdomOutside- RJOff the dribble- RJOne on One defense- RJHelp side D- OdomEverything else is pretty much a wash. So, to me, that leaves the score 3-2 RJ.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Becar @ Sep 13 2006, 09:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I have read some of the statements on this topic but dont have time to read them all. So please forgive me if I repeat something.I would rather have RJ on my team, and would have no second thoughts about it. Despite the rebounding numbers, RJ is a better defender bottom line. The only reason Odom's rebounding numbers are better is because he plays the power forward. Rebounding numbers are really besides the fact. They dont tell you how good of a defender is, they just tell you how well they position themselves at the time the shot is going up. RJ is a better one on one defender and a better scorer. Posting up- OdomOutside- RJOff the dribble- RJOne on One defense- RJHelp side D- OdomEverything else is pretty much a wash. So, to me, that leaves the score 3-2 RJ.</div>Lamar was playing SF for the majority of the season. I guess your point is moot.
I'll have to take RJ for the fact that he scores much better, Odom just reminds me of one of those fantasy players that just has good stats and is good for FANTASY leagues. For example Rashard lewis. From what I remember Rashard was in the top 10 or 15 in fantasy leagues but lets be real no matter how cumulative his stats are, I wouldnt choose him in real life over others less ranked than him. Odom is better than Rashard lewis, no doubt about that. but RJ can rebound as well and defense is good too. The only thing you could question is his passing ability. He improved his 3 point shot and I respect him for improving his game and like nitro said earlier he carried the nets well when carter wasnt there and kidd was injured. RJ Stepped up while Odom just remains the same in my opinion. Odom is a very good player but RJ takes the cake and will just be shadowed by Carters popularity. RJ talks like a white boy by the way. IMO
I pick RJ. Not because I'm a Nets fan first, Lakers second, but because I've seen both play. RJ is more consistant, while Odom may be on for one night, off the other. RJ might not hit 30 a game, but when he gets the chance, he does. Odom, though he's with Kobe, can't hit 30 a night even if he is given the chance. Odom gets on fire with rebounds and assists, but that happens rarely. RJ doesn't need to get on fire to ensure a victory for the Nets. Odom can get 20 points, 10 rebounds and 8 assists in one game, but the next night, he'll hit 12 points, 7 rebounds and 2 assists. RJ remains where he is at the most part.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Sep 13 2006, 03:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lamar was playing SF for the majority of the season. I guess your point is moot.</div>Correct, but if you look closely, I said that rebounds were really besides the point. They do not determine who is the better defensive player.
