Atheist praise theism, theism praise atheism

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by magnifier661, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Very good! Well almost. It is very hard to make an Atheists out of a man that uttered this bit of wisdom.

    "I believe in God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists,
    not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings." (Albert Einstein)

    Now I did not claim he was a Christian, but I think it is readily apparent he was not an Atheists or an Agnostic.

    Here is some other thoughts for you to ponder.

    If Fr. Jaki reserves special disdain for those who push religion into the realm of science by insisting on creationism, he has at least as great a disdain for those scientists who urge science as offering a materialistic explanation of everything. “Nothing shows so effectively the atrophying character of scientific thinking, or rather of a thinking that wants to be exclusively scientific, than the denial, by great scientists, of man’s free will. Einstein was one of these to his eternal shame. … A world view in which the World, or the Universe writ large is the ultimate entity, allows no room for free will, not even for thinking freely about such an ultimate entity.”



    He even invokes science to demonstrate that science cannot explain all. Specifically, he invokes Gödel’s Theorem. “Only those trained in mathematical logic would savor” Gödel’s Theorem as first expressed in 1931, but, he says, it was put “in a form comprehensible to the layman” in 1962. Basically, Gödel’s Theorem demonstrates mathematically that in any arithmetic system there will be a statement that can neither be proved nor disproved; the consistency of an arithmetic system cannot be proved within that system. To prove or disprove every conceivable statement about numbers within the system, one must go outside the system to come up with new rules and axioms - thus creating a larger system with its own unprovable statements.



    I admit I was confused by Fr. Jaki’s discussion of Gödel’s Theorem, even after reading it several times. Indeed, to come to my layman’s understanding of the theorem that I set forth in the preceding paragraph, I had to go outside Fr. Jaki’s book by consulting Antony Flew’s A Dictionary of Philosophy. I readily concede a mathematician may consider my condensation of the theorem technically deficient. But, I believe, my condensation allows Fr. Jaki’s salient point: “Physicists, who by 1930 were working on a theory that would unify relativity theory and quantum mechanics, should have realized that Gödel’s paper was a handwriting on the wall of their fondest aspirations. After all, their theories of physics were becoming more and more mathematical and forbiddingly so.” And, “Gödel’s theorem dealt a grievous blow to hopes about a final physical theory because this could not be implemented without a very elaborate form of mathematics.” Thus, “such a theory is possible to formulate, but when it is on hand one cannot know that it is a final theory,” given Gödel’s Theorem.



    Some scientists suggest they are working to establish a unified physical theory that would make a Creator unnecessary because it would show that the universe necessarily is what it is and cannot be anything else. They believe science would thus rebut the theological argument that the universe is contingent and therefore needs a Creator. But, because Gödel’s Theorem shows there cannot be a mathematical system with a proof of built-in consistency, and because physics must be highly mathematical, no one can construct a physical theory that would be strictly final. In other words, Gödel’s Theorem renders the scientific search for a provable unified theory a fool’s errand. And, of course, the fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”

    I chuckle at the "fools errand" so many clamor to deliver. Where is the man that knows secret of creating life? Damn! forget the fools errand, how many have spent a lifetime on that errand with no Climax?
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  2. Further

    Further Guy

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    That is a very odd compliment.
     
  3. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

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    Theists know how to write a lot of words and sound smart.
     
  4. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    Atheists are really good at making something smart sound like it wasn't.
     
    Eastoff likes this.
  5. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

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    You complimented him very succinctly and generously.
     
  6. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

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    That was laugh out loud funny.
     
  7. Further

    Further Guy

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    he did not write that, he copied, or somewhat copied http://www.culturewars.com/2006/Jaki.html

    for example this is an excerpt from that review
     
  8. Further

    Further Guy

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    Theists are great at taking credit
     
  9. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    Laughing out loud is of the devil!
     
  10. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    Atheists are great at deferring problems to those that can't point fingers at them.
     
  11. Further

    Further Guy

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    Theists are great at moving their pointing fingers to the shape of a cross.
     
  12. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    Atheist are good at pointing their finger when they have no justification to point one
     
  13. Further

    Further Guy

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    Theists are great at just having no justification. Point given.
     
  14. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    Atheism is good for those that don't want to believe in grace
     
  15. Further

    Further Guy

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    Theists are gracious enough to let the atheists always be right.
     
  16. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    Atheist are gracious enough to take credit for theists' discoveries like the Big Bang, Evolution and age of the universe"
     
  17. Further

    Further Guy

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    Theists are great at looking at facts proving the Big bang, Evolution and the age of the universe and saying "no way, praise Jesus"
     
  18. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    Not this theist
     
  19. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Ha! Very Good God! But I hope you aren't expecting a Sherlock award. What gave me away, the chuckling at the Fools errand? Yes I copied and forgot the quotes. But did you get the message in the paste? That would be worth a Sherlock award.
     
  20. Further

    Further Guy

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    I have no answer, you beat the internet.
     

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