Do our summer moves indicate building or rebuilding?

I went looking for a good contortionist pic, but found this instead. I had to post it.

 

Dave is the biggest tool! Anyone that takes stock in what he writes needs to realize that he's as bad as quick. The only difference is quick actually can talk with the players directly.

As for our team... I think we are in good position to be a 1-5 best team (barring no injuries). I also think that we have all the right tradable assets to make a deal if a player wants out of their respected team.

I think it's funny that we were a .500 team for most the year with a shitty bench and the starters logging heavy minutes. Then add stotts being a new coach to boot. I can't imagine how this team can't be 10 games over .500 with a deeper bench, better shooter and a true center. I guess some people set the bar low.

In the end, I think this team is really going to surprise people this year. I'm still saying the team resembles the 1998-99 team in terms of 2 deep at every position. It's gonna be a fun season!

 

I think Dave is right on with his analysis. Look at the talent they have brought in. They might be good enough to make the playoffs. Might is the key word. I think they are on the verge of not only missing the playoffs but missing out on a first round pick...I personally feel they need to make a decision on Aldridge sooner rather than later if there intent is to not make the playoffs and I don't believe it is. They are playing with fire with where they are sitting.

 

Sat with Dave for the game they had all of the charity tickets for. Just a guy with an opinion. He had a hard time wrapping his head around the concept that PA does not want to rebuild. Even if we have no shot at winning a title, watching a team lose 60 times a year is tough to stomach. I think most posters have the same problem. Only one team wins every year. Some owners are very happy competing for a decade with no legit shot at a title.

 

Is your memory fuzzy about what happened last season prior to closing on a 10-game losing streak? With one of the worst benches in history the team was in position for a playoff berth in a stacked conference. Now the Lakers and falling out and the Warriors, Grizzlies, and Nuggets all strike me as middling, gettable teams. We have made improvements and virtually every position, and depth.

 

But I think Allen also loves playing his odds with the lottery and there is no question on just how much he loves the draft. He loves it.

 

How would you grade the quality of the talent they have picked up? What others call depth, I call depth of unknowns. The needle hasn't moved.

 

What makes everyone think that the Grizzlies are middling and gettable?

Yeah, we haven't made any interesting, blockbuster moves, but we won 56 games last season, made the WCF, and didn't lose any key components of our roster, while improving our coaching staff.

Yeah, we still lack perimeter shooting, and hopefully management will sign a shooter like Rip Hamilton in the upcoming months, but we made it to the 56 wins and the WCF without that. Not to mention, we rid ourselves of Rudy Gay in the process.

It's not like we have an old core either. Between Conley, Allen, Randolph, and Gasol, the team's "big four" average age is under 29.

Is it because people think we were a flash in the pan this season? Since the 2010-11 season, we've been a contender every season. Why would things change now that guys like Mike Conley and Marc Gasol are coming into their primes?

 

What sort of talent-labeling or talent-grading would you like to use? I guess I can give it a shot.

McCollum: High-end bench player, 6MOY candidate-caliber combo guard. Probably never an All-Star, but a low-end Jason Terry.
Robinson: Obviously very enigmatic so I won't get too carried away. Hickson with more upside, but only playing 10-15 minutes a game instead of 28.
Lopez: Young, big C coming off a 19 PER year with 82 starts? It's hard to classify other than to say he's part of the huge "middle" of quality, serviceable NBA centers. Won't make an All-Star game, but a good talent for a team's 5th or 6th best player and a good complement for Aldridge.
Wright: Quality bench shooter. Not an unknown.

Strictly speaking, of course you're right that McCollum and Robinson are unknowns. But I think even my cautious projections for them bring our team's overall talent level up pretty high when combined with Aldridge, Lillard, and Batum.

 

I always forget we have a Grizzly fan on the board.

You make good points, but I just felt like Memphis sort of showed their ceiling this year. That being the case, perhaps "middling" is too strong. I certainly have them behind the Thunder, Spurs, Rockets, and Clippers.

 

Now substitute Meyers Leonard with Robyn on the bench. How would you classify Robinson, Leonard, Watson, Wright and the depth? To me its a depth of unknowns.

 

Also, the fact that the Grizzlies' big four is Randolph, Conley, Gasol, and Allen is another reason I'm optimistic about our team's upside. We already have a big four with very comparable talent. This is rough, and not position-by-position necessarily, but bear with me:

Gasol edges Aldridge by a similar margin that Lillard edges Conley. Batum and Randolph are pretty comparable, as are Matthews and Allen.

No?

 

I would say that

Lillard l Lillard (second season) - Most likely better. +.05
Wes l Wes - Same
Batum i Batum (same, fathomable that he could be better)
Aldridge l Aldridge (same)
Lopez l Hickson (HUGE upgrade) +1

Maynor l McCollum (6th mannish person ----> push to say the least, Maynor was rather uninspiring with his play last season.
Meyers l Meyers (7th man, first "big" sub). I'd say Meyers should be better this year. +.5
Barton l Wright (8th man) lol no contest here. +1
Claver l Robinson (9th man) Push? I guess? Having a PF that can actually backup LMA is huge though.

So, being rather reasonable in my judgment, I see 4 positions we -should- be better at. Which is enormous.

And I'd say a bench that will sport a rotation of McCollum, Meyers, Wright, Robinson, Watson, Crabbe and Barton is much deeper (and more shooting) than previous years.

 

I think you're being rather nice to Batum - but pretty lenient on Matthews vs Allen. Also, the Grizzlies have an amazing defensive system in place - we don't. And I'm not sure you can say Lillard is better than Conley after 1 year, on a non-playoff team.

 

No...

The griz have a better defensive system and coach last season. There was a reason why they made it all the way to the wcf. I think it's absurd to think we are at their level when we haven't even made the playoffs yet.

I have a high respect for the grizzlies. They are a team I would love to model out defense after.

 

Yeah, TowelBoy, I don't mean to hi-jack the thread with Grizz talk, but I think mags sort of of hit the nail on the head.

You can compare individual players, but at the end of the day, there's not really a defensive backcourt comparable to Allen/Conley, and Marc Gasol's the reigning DPOY (even though Allen should have won it).

Tony Allen couldn't score 30 pts if he was locked in an open gym overnight, but I'd be damned if I've seen a better lockdown defender in the last decade. He's like Patterson in his "Kobe stopper" days, but better and more versatile. He might be getting older, but hell, he didn't show any signs of aging in the playoffs, so I'm not going to assume he'll all of a sudden become a less effective defender next season. (Also, I don't think being 31 is a death sentance in a league where guys can be All-Defensive players well into their 30's.)

Another thing is, our new coach, David Joerger, who was the architect of our defense these last few seasons, is going to try to rightfully play a much more inside-out game than Hollins did, and honestly, I don't think there's a better offensive frontcourt than Gasol and Z-Bo. Not only are both players capable scorers, but they're only getting better by the day at passing within three feet of the basket. Some of the passes Gasol makes to Z-Bo still amaze me. He's a 7+ footer that can make Jason Kidd-like passes in the post, and that's started to rub off on Z-Bo as well.

Anyway, I'm rambling, and like I said, I'm not trying to hijack a thread that has nothing to do with the Grizz, but at the end of the day, the Grizzlies aren't a team that looks good on paper, but they're efficient, play elite defense, and have the best frontcourt in the league, in my opinion. We still need shooting though... we let Morrow slide to New Orleans for the minimum, and so now I'm just hoping we make an effort to sign Rip Hamilton. Either way though, this team is not going to slip too far off their 56 win mark from last season. The core is still in tact.

 

I don't disagree at all about their system being superior. I was just trying to compare the big four on raw talent. Ours should be catching theirs pretty soon, so the rest should come down to role players, depth, and coaching.

 

I agree that our talent has significantly improved. I just think a lot of their success isn't necessarily their level of talent, but the sums of all parts.

I think we have a chance to be like that, but we really need totally cohesiveness. I'm praying Lopez really picks up like all the other bigs have playing with Aldridge. I also hope that cj actually can handle the back up role. I think wright will be the surprise. The dude just wants to be here man. I think that energy will be addicting!

I don't disagree we can be up there in seeding, but we need all parts to work perfectly. I have faith!

 

You're right that the Grizzlies perform much better than they look on paper, and I agree with your reasons: elite defense and an outstanding post tandem that works well together.

You hear a lot of rhetoric around the league like talent wins championships, you can't contend until you bottom out and get a superstar, blah blah blah blah. I just think that if all you were doing was assigning players letter grades based on raw talent, much like we do to draft prospects every single year, the Blazers' talent base isn't much further from contention level than the Grizzlies and Pacers. No A+s or As, but a couple solid B+s and good depth all around. Honestly the fact that those teams contended should give us up, because we ain't never gonna have first-teamers in Portland (barring a miracle or two).

Here's hoping there's some combination of intangibles and schemes that get enable this Blazer team to take that next step over the next couple years as the talent gels.

 

Well Lillard, batum and Aldridge is a damn good trio. I just want the healthy, assertive batum and the inside Aldridge. If those two happen; we will be unstoppable.