ESPN top PFs, WARP projections (Aldridge not in top 10)

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Steelblazer, Aug 7, 2013.

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  1. Steelblazer

    Steelblazer Member

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    Steelblazer, Aug 7, 2013
    #1
  2. BBert

    BBert Weasels Ripped My Flesh

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    Wuh? Someone's got some splanin' to do.
     
    BBert, Aug 7, 2013
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  3. Nate4Prez

    Nate4Prez . . . .

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    Just more proof WARP is as useless as +/-
     
    Nate4Prez, Aug 7, 2013
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  4. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    So you would have said this if LMA had been projected in the top 3?
     
    Nikolokolus, Aug 7, 2013
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  5. Rhal

    Rhal Well-Known Member

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    I would have. Iv never understood WARP and its always seemed as if the team the players on effects the rating more then anything.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
     
    Rhal, Aug 7, 2013
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  6. BBert

    BBert Weasels Ripped My Flesh

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    I haven't paid much attention to the other "WARP" threads or bothered to learn out how WARP was calculated until now. I have a bit of a problem with a voodoo-based system that concludes a player who virtually every expert in the field would rate in the top three in the league in his position, is not even in the top 10. So I looked it up.

    I don't pretend to have the patience to study it in detail, but having read a decent amount of this:

    http://www.sonicscentral.com/warp.html

    I have even less faith in WARP than I did before.

    I'm going with the 'eye' test.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2013
    BBert, Aug 7, 2013
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  7. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

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    All of these "advanced" metrics are skewed by the players surrounding the individual that the metric is trying to measure. They try to pretend that they're measurements of individuals, but they are the result of how an individual is used within the context of a team. It's silly for anyone to hold up any single "advanced" metric as a measuring stick by which to rank players. At best these types of stats are used as a very small piece of the puzzle by management/coaching.
     
    blue9, Aug 7, 2013
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  8. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

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    Just out of curiosity, what is the list (don't have Insider)?

    Oddly enough, I actually agree with their assessment of both LMA and Nic. But not because WARP tells me - I still think these sorts of metrics are a load of BS.
     
    blue9, Aug 7, 2013
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  9. Nate4Prez

    Nate4Prez . . . .

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    1. LeBron James, Miami Heat
    2. Blake Griffin, Los Angeles Clippers
    3. Anthony Davis, New Orleans Pelicans
    4. Kevin Love, Minnesota Timberwolves
    5. Tim Duncan, San Antonio Spurs
    6. Ryan Anderson, New Orleans Pelicans
    7. Kenneth Faried, Denver Nuggets
    8. Josh Smith, Detroit Pistons
    9. Serge Ibaka, Oklahoma City Thunder
    10. Carmelo Anthony, New York Knicks
     
    Nate4Prez, Aug 7, 2013
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  10. tlongII

    tlongII Legendary Poster

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    Someone please tell me that list is a joke please...
     
    tlongII, Aug 7, 2013
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  11. Nate4Prez

    Nate4Prez . . . .

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    The list is not a joke, the statistical measurement in which they are ranked is a joke.
     
    Nate4Prez, Aug 7, 2013
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  12. VanillaGorilla

    VanillaGorilla Well-Known Member

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    If LMA was in the top three, the statistic would be showing itself to be more accurate.
     
    VanillaGorilla, Aug 7, 2013
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  13. Nate4Prez

    Nate4Prez . . . .

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    Nate4Prez, Aug 7, 2013
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  14. Masbee

    Masbee -- Rookie of the Year

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    That list is laughable.

    Use your eyes and you know that Blake Griffin and Anthony Davis are not Top 5 players in the NBA.
     
    Masbee, Aug 7, 2013
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  15. Masbee

    Masbee -- Rookie of the Year

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    But why would you say that?

    Last season, before the team went into tank mode, our starting five (which, you know, includes Aldridge and Batum) could hang with ANY starting five in the NBA - and that included the Heat in Miami. It was the bench that did us in.

    Not saying our team - even with a good bench - is going to make noise in the playoffs, but I don't see how you can dis those two when they are key players to a very good unit.
     
    Masbee, Aug 7, 2013
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  16. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    The stat ranks Batum highly and Aldridge not so much, which is the same thing that Blue9 says. Batum's injury was (arguably) the catalyst to our downfall last season (20-19 before, 13-30 after). Is it possible that Nic is more important to the team's success than Aldridge? One might make that claim.
     
    PtldPlatypus, Aug 7, 2013
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  17. Masbee

    Masbee -- Rookie of the Year

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    More than one would NOT make that claim.
     
    Masbee, Aug 7, 2013
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  18. PapaG

    PapaG Banned User BANNED

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    One could, I suppose, except that every other advanced metric outside of WARP says that LMA was more important to the team's success, and by a large margin.

    ON/OFF court is a far better measure than WARP in terms of comparing teammates, since it takes into account every minute of the season, and the team's success with that player on or off the court.

    http://www.82games.com/1213/1213POR.HTM
     
    PapaG, Aug 7, 2013
    #18
  19. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    I like how the Pelicans have two guys in the top6.
     
    Draco, Aug 7, 2013
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  20. Masbee

    Masbee -- Rookie of the Year

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    Yep. That 82 games stats - fancy this - aligns (more or less) with the eye test.

    The entire stinking, fucking bench is all negative numbers. Big negatives.

    JJ was a wash. Lots of hustle. Lots of stats. But, just couldn't make up for the negatives on defense (and playing out of position).

    Wes was solid.

    Lillard and Batum are really, really good offensive players.

    To my eyes, Lillard was more impactful. But, I guess his terrible defense undercut his +/- compared to Batum picking his spots.

    And, LaMarcus is the most impactful on the team. Not in a dominating way like a LeBron. But the best of a good bunch.

    I don't know what that WARP thing is, but it is so off it seems useless.
     
    Masbee, Aug 7, 2013
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