I never mentioned the Folsom Street fair! The first mention came from oldguy. Yes, the Folsom Street fair is seen by many to be over the top. Unlike the Pride Parade it is not billed as a family event. It takes place in limited time and space. Anyone who finds it offensive simply need not go. How simple is that? Of course gay people can be offensive! There is not a human being on the face of the earth who has not been obnoxious and offensive at some point in his/her life. That's the human condition and not confined to any sexual orientation. What I did protest was: 1) double standard - making out in a bar, which I have certainly seen straight couples do, is offensive when a gay couple does it 2) the implication that making out in a bar somehow means a gay couple is "asking" to be attacked Jihad means holy war. As a lesbian I have been told, for decades, that I was too ugly for a man, too sexy to be gay, deserved to be raped, deserved to be raped with an a) knife b) gun c) so many men that I died from it d) broken glass bottle, e) you name it; that I deserved to be killed, that the man speaking to me had the magic penis that would make me straight, that I was obligated to let straight men watch me make love with a woman, that I was obligated to let a straight man fuck me, that my mother should have aborted me, that I only support legal abortion because it turns women into lesbians, that Jesus would cure me, that Jesus would damn me to eternal hell, and not 5 minutes ago that I should have sex in bars to make money (this from the person who called me offensive). And that is a partial list. I have never said any of these things about straight folks. So who is the fucking jihad coming from? Now THAT'S offensive. But no amount of being offensive ever justifies assault.
When you bring up your story and basically start it with you are comparing your personal and relatively trivial observance with 2 guys getting attacked for no reason other than being gay. You mocked Further with your 'cool story bro', but he was entirely correct. It would be exactly like if we were discussing an article about a string of rapes in NY and had no other details. You then pop in with a story about some 20 year old coming into a red neck bar wearing some skimpy outfit and then saying the rapes in NY are horrible, but It has nothing to do with my vs. your value system. You are legitimizing brutal attacks (that the attacks are horrible we can agree on) by bringing up your unrelated story and leading with the quote above.
Thank you for posting this. Some people have a hard time imagining what queer folks of all stripes have gone through. This mirrors a lot of what has happened to my LBTQ friends and family. I've always been confused by the amount of shit you get from this board honestly. I mean, a gay liberal woman who refuses to be run off the board is fairly threatening.
+1 I think she's been a terrific poster on the site from day 1, and it's rather stunning how much grief she's gotten.
hey, nice post. one of the most honest of yours that I have read. the double standard you protest is understandable, but to do the same for you is OK? Qt crandc "Anyone who finds it offensive simply need not go. How simple is that?" I dont believe for one seconed that there is one person here that feels that it is OK to assault someone for being offensive, but again, face it, some of your fellows are militant to the point of making you look like a fixture on Fox. There is a small segment of people that enjoy creating trouble just so that they can scream about the injustice
This. We don't need to create trouble. Our existence troubles so many people that it is now a crime in Russia and Uganda is still considering making our existence a capital crime. With open support from some in the U.S. who figure they've lost the battle here but can still jail and kill and rape us elsewhere.
I would be interested in learning more about these people in the US, who openly support jailing, killing and raping gay people..you know, you live in the perfect enclave that embraces the gay community..if so many terrible things have happened to you there..well I am shocked
I brought up the Folsom Street Fair because you and I had a long dispute about it years ago. You portray it as nothing more than a bunch of normal people walking around in leather. You blasted me for saying that it was outrageous and offensive behavior, what with guys wearing nothing but leather chaps walking around in public with their fingers up each other's keesters. You belittled me for saying that that behavior in public was bullshit. And, YES, I would find it offensive if a men and women were walking up the street with their fingers up each other's whatever, and I said so at the time. Further, I mentioned that google maps seemed to show a massive residential neighborhood adjoining the fair. I asked if it was cordoned off so that kids couldn't wander in and see that kind of behavior. You said, we don't fence off the gays here like they did the Jews in Warsaw. You went on to say that they wouldn't see anything that they wouldn't see in a strip club, which seemed like a pretty dumb statement, since they don't allow kids into strip clubs. And, while I've been in a few strip clubs, I've never seen anyone with their finger up anyone else's business. The point is that you never admitted that there was anything offensive about what was going on there (and still haven't), and made me out to be making shit up. I even PM'd a mod to ask if I could post pictures from the fair's website to prove my case. They went and looked at the site and said that they would delete the pix I was talking about if I posted them. So, yeah, I brought it up because my experience with you is that you will defend your agenda, no matter what the behavior. You made it clear that you didn't find anything happening there offensive and that you didn't see a problem with kids attending. If you don't think that behavior is offensive, and not worthy of excluding children from it, I find it hard to visualize what you would find offensive in the gay community. And, making out, and rubbing each other all over in a bar is offensive to many. You don't get to define what is and is not offensive to other people. THERE IS NO DOUBLE STANDARD EXCEPT IN YOUR OWN FUCKING MIND. I said I would find it offensive if a man and women did the same thing. WHERE IS THE DOUBLE STANDARD??? Feel free to ignore the facts to continue your crusade. Doing what they did was asking for trouble. Fortunately, it didn't come to that. You can agree or not, I don't care. It sucks that assholes said shit like that to you. I'm sorry that you had to endure that. Your incessant harping on every single thing gay seems very much like a holy war. I care that the term jihad offends you about as much as you care that the dorks in the bar offended me. I didn't say that it did. I didn't imply that it did. Nobody else said or implied that it did. So what is your fucking point? Go Blazers
Bullshit. I didn't even imply that they should be beat up. I didn't imply that I wished they would be beat up. I didn't imply that they deserved to be beat up. In fact, if they were only 'being gay', as in being gay or holding hands in the bar, I would have tried to help them is someone started hassling them. They were just 'being gay'. They were being offensive, as has been describe ad nauseum above. Bullshit, again. A woman dressing in a skimpy outfit is not asking for anything. You might be getting closer if you made the case of a woman dressing in a skimpy outfit sneaking into a prison yard, hanging out in a secluded corner, while rubbing on herself. I think that just might be asking for it. I never said that, and fuck you for making it look like you are quoting me saying that. Another cool story, bra. Go Blazers
Walking around in public with their fingers up each other's asses is not what normal people do. Go Blazers
That is my point exactly. She isn't asking for anything. But for years women have had to fight this notion that they some how brought on the attention of their attackers because they were dressing too sexily. Somehow the blame was partially on them when it should 100% be on the perp. I never said you thought they should get beat up, but you did say "sometimes..these guys are trying to get beat up". Even though you are talking about another situation, bringing it up the context of this thread implies that some times when gays get beat up, they brought it upon themselves. Do you not see how that comment trivializes the actual brutality that happened against 2 guys in the original article? Just like the "she was asking for it wearing that skirt" comment that was so rampant in the past trivialized sexual violence against women?
Isn't this like 2 black dudes getting beat up by a roving pack of skinheads on the streets of South Central LA? I think this happened in brooklyn a few years back too.
hahahaahaa Denny, with that, you have just jumped the shark..love to see pictures of you behaiving in that manor...
