Dinosaurs and man coexisting

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by magnifier661, Sep 27, 2013.

  1. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    30,704
    Likes Received:
    6,198
    Trophy Points:
    113
    FWIW, I'm a geographer with a geology minor; no "expert" but I understand the fundamentals of what I'm talking about.
     
  2. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    If by magic 65M years newer material somehow fell down to much deeper in the earth, they would find human remains with dinosaurs. They don't.
     
  3. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    59,328
    Likes Received:
    5,588
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Cracking fools in the skull
    Location:
    Lancaster, California
    I am aware of your education; which is why I won't jump into a debate on a disagreement. I do have a question though. I've seen studies where geologists aged a fossil; then later discovered it was older than the area in which they found it. How is that possible?
     
  4. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    34,328
    Likes Received:
    43,692
    Trophy Points:
    113
    so, what does a geologist do with polystrate fossils?
     
  5. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    59,328
    Likes Received:
    5,588
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Cracking fools in the skull
    Location:
    Lancaster, California
    This was kinda what I was getting at
     
  6. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    30,704
    Likes Received:
    6,198
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You'd first try to use absolute dating methods vs. relative dating methods for one thing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  7. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    30,704
    Likes Received:
    6,198
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A brief description: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polystrate_fossil
     
  8. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    30,704
    Likes Received:
    6,198
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's possible that an older fossil could be found in a younger layer of rock, but not vice versa without leaving some evidence of fragmenting or disruption of the older layer.
     
    Further likes this.
  9. Further

    Further Guy

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    11,099
    Likes Received:
    4,039
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Stuff doer
    Location:
    Place
    most polystrate fossils are simply larger than layer in which they would be housed, so a tree sticks up. There are areas where churning of the ground reverses order or lays over on itself, so the layers seem mangled, and in these areas it is very common for aging mistakes at first. But a more thorough overview of the area, a mapping of the layers, will quickly show this original aging was false. So the first aging is a best guess, and then more info comes in and a better guess, and then more info and you start to move away from a guess into actual fact.
     
  10. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    59,328
    Likes Received:
    5,588
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Cracking fools in the skull
    Location:
    Lancaster, California
    Ahhh Okay I get you... So a fossil like a T. Rex; could make its way to a younger spot and still work in the age of the geologist; but the younger fossil cannot make it to the older spot without clues of other younger sediment being their as well?
     
  11. Further

    Further Guy

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    11,099
    Likes Received:
    4,039
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Stuff doer
    Location:
    Place
    exactly. rep
     
  12. Further

    Further Guy

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    11,099
    Likes Received:
    4,039
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Stuff doer
    Location:
    Place
    Hey mags, I took a few geology classes about a decade ago and just loved them. I think you would too, it's a really cool puzzle to work with. Don't take the earlier comment as just a poke, it's actually pretty damn interesting. One of the more interesting one that actually seems to be offered at many colleges is Geology of the National Forests. So learning about stuff from Yellowstone to Arches. If you have time, you can even just audit classes at many schools, no homework and just a tiny fee, but you still get to do all the learning. I think it would be up your ally.


    EDIT: I think it's national parks.
     
  13. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    125,721
    Likes Received:
    145,974
    Trophy Points:
    115
    You leave his ally and what goes up it out of this.
     
  14. Further

    Further Guy

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    11,099
    Likes Received:
    4,039
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Stuff doer
    Location:
    Place
    Are you saying his wife has a special package that didn't show up in those photos?
     
  15. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    30,704
    Likes Received:
    6,198
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'll create two hypothetical scenarios for you.

    Older fossils in a newer layer of rock: Let's say a massive flood event hit the Natural History Museum and swept up all of the fossilized T-Rex skeletons and deposited them in a layer or silty mud. A million years later a geologist comes along and chips them out of the sandstone. His first guess is to use a relative dating method to order all of the fossils he finds there. Let's say he finds small mammals along side the much older dinosaur bones and initially assumes they are the same age. He then tests the bones with an absolute dating method using radiometric isotopes (not necessarily radio-carbon dating, but strontium, potassium, argon, etc. which all have much longer half-lives). He then discovers that the Dinosaur bones are much older than the mammalian bones. He would then determine that the much older material must have been exposed at some point and found its way into a different layer or rock ... but he probably wouldn't know about the Natural History Museum.

    Newer material in an older layer of rock You've been eating buffalo wings on your front porch and taking a lot of mescaline and you're wondering how you can get this chicken bone into the middle of this big boulder in your front yard without damaging the boulder. Fact is you can't unless you drill into it, split it in two or use the power of your mescaline enhanced mind to teleport the chicken bone into the center of the rock.
     
  16. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Glacier picks up fossil and moves it 1000 miles away where plate tectonics causes a mountain to appear and moves the fossil to the tip of the highest peak.
     
  17. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    59,328
    Likes Received:
    5,588
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Cracking fools in the skull
    Location:
    Lancaster, California
    Wowy zowy man! That's far out!
     
  18. Further

    Further Guy

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    11,099
    Likes Received:
    4,039
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Stuff doer
    Location:
    Place
  19. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    30,704
    Likes Received:
    6,198
    Trophy Points:
    113
    FWIW Mags, you seem to be really curious about this kind of stuff and I'm dead serious about taking an online course in geology or geography. Universities and community colleges offer introductory courses all of the time and you could even audit it.
     
  20. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    59,328
    Likes Received:
    5,588
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Cracking fools in the skull
    Location:
    Lancaster, California
    Thanks man. I will take yours and Further's advice into consideration. I just have so much time invested in my current project right now.
     

Share This Page