I don't really know.. I guess I just don't get why this definition of gender you talk about even exists. It just unnecessarily classifies and separates people.
I think you mean social "arts" not "sciences". I am fully aware. Please ask them if they feel they are men but females. Then your argument will have some validity.
The classification of gender as a social construct comes from an examination of social tendencies. All this definition of gender is doing is describing how the concept of gender is actualized in the real world. It is simply a model.
Dur hurr hurr hurrr http://www.glaad.org/transgender http://www.isna.org/faq/transgender http://www.huffingtonpost.com/danie...ansgender-having-little-choice_b_3692430.html http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/transgender.aspx
imho (not that any of you asked), but anytime you quote the bible to defend your opinion on something, you really open yourself up to a lot of questions about some of the inconsistencies of the bible and why people seem to pick and choose certain areas of the bible to bring up.
For those who take the "gender differs from sex" perspective in this debate, this is what I'm hearing. Sex is objectively defined biologically; there is no debate. Gender is self-defined by the individual, cannot be measured, and is by definition, subjective. Being subjective, that means that one's perspective on it cannot be deemed "wrong" by another. Am I off base here?
Sex is objectively defined by biology, yes. However, there are always grey areas, as some people are not born outwardly male or female. The traditional practice (at least in the West) has been to take the "in between" cases (i.e. people born as intersex) and perform surgery early on in order to essentially "pick a side." Gender is a matter of self-identification, yes. But again, it is also a social construct. Therefore, whether accept our gender that was assigned to us at birth or not, people will usually think of us as the gender they perceive us to be. It's biology vs. culture. Just as some people may think that all Asians naturally like to eat rice, others may think that all women naturally like to sew, or cook, or wear make up. They are both wrong, as these things are cultural aspects and not essential to one's biology. EDIT: Sorry, got sidetracked. In short, you've pretty much got it right.
So what I'm hearing is that I have to view the world from someone else's viewpoint at the expense of my own? I have to lie about what I see and feel to make others feel better? I have no problem with transgender people. I will be kind to them, respect them, and can be friends with them (my cousin has toed the line and had started hormone therapy, but ultimately decided against a change). She never needed to be referred to as a man, so I haven't had the full experience of calling her something I felt she wasn't. But if we are polite and respectful and can refer to a girl that wants to be referred to as a man, as a man in-person, why does it matter if we refer to her as a girl when not in her presence? Why should I alter my world view to someone else's view? Why would I be forced to live a lie in my head? Why do I need to put someone else above myself? It seems like a fair compromise that I give in and refer to someone how they want to be referred to in their presence (and live from their perspective and worldview) and I can stick to my beliefs when not in their presence. I dont' see anything wrong with that. I'm not necessarily saying this from my actual point of view or how I really view the situation, but I am trying to gain understanding from how crandc, hoojacks, further, etc. look at this and can say they're right and everyone else is wrong. I guess I'm playing devil's advocate to their point of view. I'm just of the belief if you respect someone, and you respect and stay true to yourself, be kind to everyone else, etc... then what else matters? We should all be able to have our our POV's without people trying to change them if we are at least respectful to others.
Well put. Repped. My response is that this whole thing arose from the nature of conversation on this board. I think what you said is correct: you can believe what you believe as long as you're respectful to people. What happened is that some people were not being respectful, because this is the internet and people are semi-anonymous, and other people responded to that disrespect. But things around here tend to be hyperbolic. We usually just shout our worldview at each other and hope something sticks. Nobody is saying that you have to change your beliefs (at least I'm not.) What I try to do is meet disrespect with information. I want to show the people who are being disrespectful just how disrespectful they are being. Because honestly, they may not realize it. And if they continue to make disrespectful comments, then it's on them.
