I wanna say Grant Hill from 04/05. I mean, the guy played 67 games that season, which is something only since that's the highest amount he has played since the 99-00 season. He had almost 20 PPG in those 67, but only 5 boards and 3 assists. There had to have been better candidates. Oh yeah, THERE WERE.Bosh for one. He had like 18 9 and 2.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BCB? @ Sep 27 2006, 06:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Who cares how many more rebounds Dwight Howard had over Rasheed Wallace. Wallace was on the most dominant/amazing team at that time and was shutting guys out defensivly. He was clearly better than Dwight Howard, you put Howard with Ben Wallace and watch his rebounds go down as well. I don't care what Howards numbers were, he played on a bad team.</div>Ok then, we might as well put Antoine Walker on the All-Star team because he plays on a good team. We have to take in to account that he has to split rebounds with Udonis and Shaq and he doesn't get as many points because Shaq and Wade are taking alot of shots.....right? those are basically the words coming out of your mouth. Sure, Sheed is better than Antoine but that is basically what u are saying. You shouldnt make the All-Star game because your team is successful. You make the All-Star game because you are that caliber of a player. 15 ppg and 8 or so boards per game is not All-Star caliber. I dont care what you say. Ok, since Chris Bosh was on a sh*tty team, should he have not made the ASG? How about Ray Allen?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Sep 27 2006, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Also, who are these "sh*tty defenders" that you speak of?</div>Steve Nash, Lebron James, Ray Allen, Allen Iverson to name a few. Im actually not sure if Ray Ray was on it but I think he was.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Sep 27 2006, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Steve Nash, Lebron James, Ray Allen, Allen Iverson to name a few. Im actually not sure if Ray Ray was on it but I think he was.</div>Ray Allen has been an All-Star for the past few years for one, and #2 he is not a terrible defender. About average. Sure he's no Bruce Bowen but he's not a "sh*tty defender" by any means.And why is everyone putting Grant Hill? 20/5/3 (as someone mentioned) are definitely All-Star numbers in my book, and why don't you take into account the fight/struggle this man has went through just to be on the court again, then come back and perform at such a high level. I can't believe people are saying Grant Hill here.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Sep 27 2006, 10:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ray Allen has been an All-Star for the past few years for one, and #2 he is not a terrible defender. About average. Sure he's no Bruce Bowen but he's not a "sh*tty defender" by any means.</div>hes not a good defender at all....he contributes to the fact that his team is the worst defensive team in the league.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Sep 28 2006, 11:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>hes not a good defender at all....he contributes to the fact that his team is the worst defensive team in the league.</div>His team mates are the reason they are the worst in the L. No front court presence to speak of. Lewis and ridnour dont play D at all and they dont rebound either. I think Ray is the ONLY sonic who plays Solid D. Who cares about whether a player is on a bad team or a good one. They should be picked on thier form and production throughout the season. It makes no difference if the could have put up big numbers if they were on a bad team it matters what they actually put up. Rasheed put up role player numbers. He shouldn't have got in!
What, are we going to punish players for being on great teams and playing team ball? I dont think so. Wallace made the team as a legit all-star. I dont care if a guy averages 20 and 10 for a bad team. Does that make him an All-star? IMO, no it doesn't. All-stars should be guys who win. Thats what I think. Everyone needs to quit Wallace bashing.EDIT: If anyone didnt deserve to be an all-star it would be Yao Ming. That 1st year he got in, he didnt put up great numbers on a playoff team, but got in because of all the people that like him in China.
No, the all-star game is a show, the best players are put in. Howard had a better season and deserved to be in the all-star game over Wallace. I think there were too many Pistons on there.Agree with the Yao Ming comment though.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Sep 27 2006, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Steve Nash, Lebron James, Ray Allen, Allen Iverson to name a few. Im actually not sure if Ray Ray was on it but I think he was.</div>Team leader, team leader and team leader. All of who you named are team leaders as I already said. Even if they aren't good defensively, they are the leader of the team unlike players like Jamison who score behind Arenas.
I was just naming bad defensive players in the All-Star game since you asked....I never said anything about them not being deservant all-stars or anything.And PJcolpitts, that is the dumbest philosohpy I have ever heard. If it was that way, you would have guys like Bruce Bowen in the All-Star game. The game is for the BEST players to put on the BEST peformance for the fans. Not to reward teams who have good records. That is just dumb.
I was just naming bad defensive players in the All-Star game since you asked....I never said anything about them not being deservant all-stars or anything.And PJcolpitts, that is the dumbest philosohpy I have ever heard. If it was that way, you would have guys like Bruce Bowen in the All-Star game. The game is for the BEST players to put on the BEST peformance for the fans. Not to reward teams who have good records. That is just dumb.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Sep 28 2006, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I was just naming bad defensive players in the All-Star game since you asked....I never said anything about them not being deservant all-stars or anything.And PJcolpitts, that is the dumbest philosohpy I have ever heard. If it was that way, you would have guys like Bruce Bowen in the All-Star game. The game is for the BEST players to put on the BEST peformance for the fans. Not to reward teams who have good records. That is just dumb.</div>Alright but either way, you named like 5 players out of 20+ which isn't very much.
You said name the bad defenders on the team so I did....I never said there were alot. I just listed the ones....sheesh
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Sep 27 2006, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Steve Nash, Lebron James, Ray Allen, Allen Iverson to name a few. Im actually not sure if Ray Ray was on it but I think he was.</div>Sounds like you meant there were more.
Now, Ballerman, lets not take what I siad out of context. Its not like Bruce Bowen and Rasheed Wallace are the same calibier player. Wallace is a ton better, but just because he doesn't score 25 and grab 10 rebounds doesn't mean he isn't an All-Star. Bowen hasnt ever averaged double figures in a season. In no way is he an All-Star, but in no way does this mean we should punish a guy like Wallace or Billups or Hamilton for being on a great team. All three guys would have put up great numbers in a different system. What I'm saying is that players that have above average numbers on a great team are more qualified than players that average a ton on bad teams. Just my opinion on the matter.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pjcolpitts? @ Sep 28 2006, 12:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Now, Ballerman, lets not take what I siad out of context. Its not like Bruce Bowen and Rasheed Wallace are the same calibier player. Wallace is a ton better, but just because he doesn't score 25 and grab 10 rebounds doesn't mean he isn't an All-Star. Bowen hasnt ever averaged double figures in a season. In no way is he an All-Star, but in no way does this mean we should punish a guy like Wallace or Billups or Hamilton for being on a great team. All three guys would have put up great numbers in a different system. What I'm saying is that players that have above average numbers on a great team are more qualified than players that average a ton on bad teams. Just my opinion on the matter.</div>I agree 100%.Rasheed always got crap for making the team, but he has the talent, and IMO the stats considering the team he played for to make the team. He is a great defender, and he can score from all over the court. CB4 how come you kept saying defense doesn't matter in the case of Rasheed making it, but continued to call Howard the much more dominant defender? By the way, Dwight is not that much better then Sheed on the defensive end.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Sep 28 2006, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Averaging a double-double isn't All-Star caliber in your mind? I think it is, especially with the talent pool of NBA centers in the past few years. But I'm just mad that Magloire never improved since then, in fact, his talent level might have dropped off a bit. I'll still agree that he's probably the worst player to make it in the past few years, but averaging 14/10 is good.</div>No, I dont think you should get into the ASG just because you are a decent rebounder. 13.6 ppg just isn't all star calibre at all. I think it is a disgrace that Magloire got in, because he isn't an "all star" type player at all.14/10 is solid, but definately not worthy of an all star nod.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pistonfan11 @ Sep 28 2006, 09:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree 100%.Rasheed always got crap for making the team, but he has the talent, and IMO the stats considering the team he played for to make the team. He is a great defender, and he can score from all over the court. CB4 how come you kept saying defense doesn't matter in the case of Rasheed making it, but continued to call Howard the much more dominant defender? By the way, Dwight is not that much better then Sheed on the defensive end.</div>Now, you're making things up. I said that it didnt matter that much, and also said that Howard is a great defender anyway, so Sheed's defense shouldnt really give him the nod over Howard anyway... A bit of a difference there.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Something-To-Say @ Sep 28 2006, 12:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I wanna say Grant Hill from 04/05. I mean, the guy played 67 games that season, which is something only since that's the highest amount he has played since the 99-00 season. He had almost 20 PPG in those 67, but only 5 boards and 3 assists. There had to have been better candidates. Oh yeah, THERE WERE.Bosh for one. He had like 18 9 and 2.</div>Wow, completely wrong. He had 22, 9, and 2. Which PF should have made it over him?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>EDIT: If anyone didnt deserve to be an all-star it would be Yao Ming. That 1st year he got in, he didnt put up great numbers on a playoff team, but got in because of all the people that like him in China.</div>And how do voters in China affect those in the US? You do know that Shaq had more internet votes than Yao?Furthermore, if Yao got voted in by China, why didn't Kirilenko get so many votes from Russia? Or Dirk from Germany? Parker for France? How is it so?
