I did? Where, show me. I said the sandbagged 2013 to get under the cap for 2014. I didnt say a word about the 2013 payroll outside of making damn sure they didnt add any to 2014 with any signings.
...yet more damage control BS...sorry, but you have forced me to minimize you...I have that power. ...babble on...you're no longer worth my time.
Damage control - meaning pointing out that you are an ignorant idiot who can't read yet again. Go ahead, show me where i spoke about the 2013 payroll and how much they spent last year.
I guess what I am personally having a problem with is what is the bottom line from a business perspective. Luxury Tax is no more than a line item on the P/L. If I was an owner or shareholder, I would want my valuation to maintain or if possible, increase. And I have no dog in the fight, but I have always believe that the cap figure was merely an estimate for the Yankees, not an actual number because if we go through 2 or 3 or 4 years, that current valuation could significantly drop. If I am an owner, which one is more fiscally responsible, the luxury tax or the valuation. I see the payroll and luxury tax as a mere line item on the p/l that needs to be manage responsibly but with the bottom line being the ultimate pot of goal, especially if some rumors are true about the family wanting to sell the Yankees. That is where I feel the club got caught with there pants down. If Tex, Jeter and Granderson were all healthy last year, the results on the field would have been different. Because of all the injuries and re-injuries, and the lack of a minor league system with AAA talent MLB ready, they were forced to spin doctor the upcoming 2014 approach. I feel it is all smoke and mirrors, I feel they are going to try to spend but there is nothing to say we are as an attractive FA destination as we used to be and money may no longer be enough to acquire the elite FA if they feel that there is a lessor hope for post season play.
Line item or not if a company of any kind can cut 40 mill off their tax bill they will. That's 40 million or so on an ongoing basis. That is material. Also keep in mind that money goes to other teams who refuse to spend. It's actually a smart decision to get below the limit. What I don't like is hearing Hal said they will always field a championship team. They didn't last year injuries or not. Some of those injuries could have reasonably expected to linger like jeter and Arod. The one real fluke in the bunch was granderson. But championship teams usually have capable catchers. The Yankees never did last year. They didn't fill their holes with options that would maintain the championship caliber approach yet filled then with cheap garbage. The trade for wells was idiotic but cost little toward 2014. No player was traded for or signed that impacted 2014 and I do not believe that was accidental. Personally I am against stupid long term deals and have long said if the team needs to take a step back to move forward I'm all for it. But they are in between. Not committed one way or the other, at least not last year. And worse, long standing problems permeating through the organization like the poor player development and continued uncreative and often damaging approach of the GM is not being addressed. Like you said Hal and company might be looking to sell one day and getting that tax obligation off the books could also be viewed as a clean up item in preparation for that. A year or 2 missing the playoffs is not going to destroy the Yankee brand. The continues path they are leading toward if some of the bigger issues are not fixed might eventually though.
You know you hit the nail on the head I feel. Under King George, the business model was never in question, regardless of the previous years record. With George, it was lead, follow, get out of the way. That has been what has been missing as we have pointed out dating back to the ESPN boards. There is no clear cut direction. Example: If George was alive and well, there would be no talk of the Cap or Luxury Cap I believe. So the question of will the Yankees be Players at the Winter Meetings. I going to say yes, rather they should be or not, Yes, as in the words of Bill Parcells, "You are what you are", and we are Capitalist Pigs, lol!
Major, i think we are at a crossroads here with Hal and company to see where they really stand. Last year it was pretty clear fielding the BEST team they could was not their #1 goal. Too many questionable moves like bringing Ichiro back ( a cheap option vs a real one), the trade for Wells (useless but again, little impact to 2014 payroll), having no real back up plan for Jeter and others who had injuries that could linger, and going without a catcher does not point to an organization willing to do WHATEVER it takes to win. the 2013 Yankees never were a championship caliber team from the get go. They went half way. Adding payroll for 2013 (unwisely but thats a diff story) but not really improving the team at all. In fact the 2013 team was significantd downgrade to the 2012 team that also felt short. When is the last time we saw that happen? Hal is saying the same stuff again....the cap is not a mandate and they will blow thorugh if they have to. They didnt show the willingness last year, but with this A-rod stuff lingering they will probably have to face that choice agsint the wall this time. As i detailed, i dont think they will blink now, but they might after watching Boston win. I just wish i saw more urgency. The lack of changes at the minor league level, and keeping cashman around for what i will never understand does not show me that they felt last year was a failure. They should have, but i think they knew going in that THAT team wasning winning a WS. And that is why the reaction to what happened is what it was. If they truly have the fire to win like their dad, when faced with the reality of having another substandard product(by yankee standards anyway), vs blowing thorugh that cap, the decision will be easy for them. I question that fire, though and for good reason. We'll see.
Who should they have gotten in 2013 that would have made a difference? nobody, they didn't make any moves because 2013 was a very shitty free agent class, and trades are simply not as fruitful as they once were. So blaming Cashman or Hal is lame, I bet you can't name 1 move they could have done that would have made this team significantly better, let alone the 3-4 moves that were really needed. 2014 is a much better class, although the pitching is weak and that's really what they need, but make the bats better and they should be decent, and I have faith NY will do that.
They could have gotten an actual catcher. That helps. They could have gotten a better OF option vs Ichiro. I am not saying any of these potential moves would have been smart, but if we are talking about building a championship caliber team, the yankees did not do that last year. They were in limbo, trying to get below this payroll limit and said as much. I dont know why people are acting like I'm making this up on my own. I am not "blaming" anyone. I am actually against long term stupid moves to win NOW. What i am talking about is the 2014 budget, and how it has and will impact their moves. The question raised was why should A-rod's case hold up any free agent signings. I think that answer is pretty clear. I simply don't believe Hal when he says "we will do whatever it takes". They didn't last year, so i dont see why we can believe they will now. By the way, last years class wasnt any better or worse than this year. Grienke, Josh hamilton, Victorino, Aniibal Sanchez,Swisher, Bourne, Edwin Jackson, Adam LaRoach, Cody Ross, Angel Pagan, Napoli, Torii Unter, Martin among others were all free agents. Some fell short of expectations and Josh Hamiliton was a disaster, but we are talking in hindsight now. Many in this upcoming class will be busts too. But if you really think the yankees filled their needs without paying close attention to the 2014 payroll, i dont know what to tell you. Yankees simply were not players. Now we can start a seperate thread about how stupid Cashman's actual moves were for 2013, but that is not my point here at all.
Rusty do you feel that the decisions to go with Jeter at SS before Spring Training coming off severe ankle surgery wasn't a mistake. That they felt that Nunez was a adequate MLB SS for a season. That Suzuki in right field was the best they could do. That Cervelli and Stewart was a MLB caliber starting catcher. That trading for Vernon Wells was a good choice. Do you feel that Hafner was the best they could do for DH It's about decision making, what YBlue is saying, and I think we all agree, is that there is never any accountability within the organization. The job of a GM is to be prepared. Granted that the injuries we had you can never plan for, but for example, Martin wanted to come back, the money he signed for in Pittsburgh was nothing for the Yankees. The organization said they were only interested in one year, why, if Sanchez, Murphy, or Romine arrive it would be 2015 before Sanchez would be ready. A two year contract was perfect but not for Cashman or whomever sits behind the curtain. DH, Ibanez was available after the 2012 season ended, it would have made sense to sign him if there was nothing better, but Hafner, not even Pasta would of have signed Hafner. Decisions once again. Now bring this 189 million mandate into the pic, real or not, and again this is what I feel YBlue is saying, Your either pregnant or not. So is the cap real or not. And what purpose does it serve by discussing it. There are advantages with being under, but a 3.3 billion business model I feel dictates other options and spending to maintain the brand is one of them.
Until I hear the other players NY should have gotten, and could have gotten, then how can I knock them? I've said it again and again, fans can kill them for not having a better farm, that's fair, although no farm was saving them in 2013, but you can't kill them for not getting better FA/trade players when none were to be had, unless you think Hamilton was a smart move.
I mean come on, its not rocket science here. They could have signed Torri Hunter, r Cody Ross, Angel Pagan. even resigned Swisher (bad idea)or a number of other OF options without breaking the bank for Hamilton (which George would have done for sure, to the team's detriment). Point is, the yankees were worried about adding meaningful payroll to 2014, so they passed on better options for a cheaper one in Ichiro. Everyone knew Jeter coming back was dicey at best. The guy suffered a major injury, and they really had no back up plan. YOu had your GM spouting off about how he didnt think the once untouchable Nunez wasnt a very good offensive player, and everyone knows how bad he was with the glove, yet that was their option. No doing whatever it takes again. They could have reupped Martin, or gone after a better part time starter than Stewart to back up Cervelli if they actually believe in him. That combo didnt cut it, but instead of adding payroll t0 2014, they figured they'd hack it. That is not doing whatever it takes. The pitching was far from locked down. They could have gone after a number of capable starter, but chose not to. They foolishly relied on Phil Hughes yet again to do what he does best, suck, because they didnt want to add any payroll to 2014. Coming off of 2012's playoff exit, you do not normally see a yankee team go from not good enough to worse off. We did last year. Once again, ths isnt about what they should or should not have done or what was smart and what was not. Its about what they did do, and what they did do was try to field a competeive team without hitting that 2014 payroll. That isnt doing "whatever it takes". My response that started all of this was to a question by Hammer, i think, who asked why does the A-rod case have anything to do with who the yankees sign. My response was because if they want to get under that cap to reset the tax, A-rod's 25 mill is meanigful and they will have to know how much is hitting against 2014. And i stated that Hal saying don't worry we will blow passed it if we have to is not exactly to be trusted based on what he said and did last year. Later it turned into a tit for tat about how much the yankees spent on 2013 payroll, and if they did so last year they would again etc etc. All stuff that is irrelevant to the 2014 payroll tax impact.
River Ave had a nice article with their opinion of the Cap and Arod situation. The article outlines what are we as fans to believe. Are we building to contenders in 2014, or are there fiscal restraints. You can't have it both ways. In there article, the consensus is Arod's money shouldn't matter and if Hal is serious then the Cap isn't a roadblock either. Once again, no clear direction. http://riveraveblues.com/2013/11/the-bet-that-can-balance-winning-and-plan-189-96177/
That articel seems pretty dead on to me. I think this offseason will tell us all we need to know about just how much Hal values winning over earning. Rumor is he is going to be very hands on and involved directly in personel decisisons, which once again begs why they dont just dump usless cashman already. He already cut Cashman out of the Jeter deal. Hopefully he continues to cut that slug out of many more.
I agree, after this offseason, Hal will no longer be able to talk out of both side of his mouth. I believe that Arod situation has nothing to do with this offseason. Plain and simple. If we predicate our moves on the Arod outcome we are making a mistake.
Well the A-rod situation does have something to do with the offseason. A lot actually....unless Hal is finally serious about his comment that the goal to get under the cap does not override the ability to field the best team. That is a hurdle Hal needs to clear in his mind. He didn't last year.
