Some of these are not accurate prototypes but whatever it's close. Who would win in a game?Starting line-ups:C- Wilt Chamberlain ---- Shaquille O'NealPF- Kevin McHale ---- Tim DuncanSF- Larry Bird ---- Dirk NowitzkiSG- Michael Jordan ---- Kobe BryantPG- Magic Johnson ---- Lebron JamesBench:C- Bill Laimbeer ---- Ben WallacePF- Moses Malone ---- Elton BrandSF- Clyde Drexler ---- Vince CarterSG- Reggie Miller ---- Ray AllenPG- Isiah Thomas ---- Chris Paul
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BALLAHOLLIC @ Oct 8 2006, 03:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Some of these are not accurate prototypes but whatever it's close. Who would win in a game?SF- Clyde Drexler ---- Vince Carter</div>I'll say! VC compared to Clyde the Glyde? I think VC is more like Julius Erving.. Not because of his entire game, no, but because of the insane highlights night in and night out.Anyway, I believe the legends would win because:C- Wilt Chamberlain ---- Shaquille O'Neal: Wilt would still score on Shaq. On D, Wilt would just have to do the 'hack-a-shaq' sh*t.PF- Kevin McHale ---- Tim Duncan: In this matchup, Timmy would dominate, but Kevin would still get a lay-up here and there.SF- Larry Bird ---- Dirk Nowitzki: Both men would drop shot after shot, but, of course, Larry would win this match-up due to the fact that he had better D than Dirk currently does.SG- Michael Jordan ---- Kobe Bryant: Both men would deliver insane shots, but in the end, with the game tied at 100-100, you know MJ would take the buzzer beater. Yeah, Kobe could do it, too, but MJ would have to do it.. Plain and simple!PG- Magic Johnson ---- Lebron James: Honestly, I think LeBron would be better in this spot. He'd be able to take over the game if his team were to be trailing. Magic would deliver good shots here and there, but once LeBron is set loose, you know he's not going to stop 'till the buzzer buzzes.Bench:C- Bill Laimbeer ---- Ben Wallace: Neither man would score. They'd just block one another. It'd get lame after a while.PF- Moses Malone ---- Elton Brand: Moses would most likely demonstrate his skills on Brand. Elton may get away with a block or two, but Moses would hit him with a clutch lay-up every few possessions.SF- Clyde Drexler ---- Vince Carter: VC would dunk on Clyde. End of discussion.SG- Reggie Miller ---- Ray Allen: Both men would shoot three's all through the game. Eventually, Reggie would score 8 pts in 8.9 seconds and secure the victory.PG- Isiah Thomas ---- Chris Paul: Isiah Thomas wouldn't have to mess with CP3. Chris may get away with a steal or two, but there's no doubt that Isiah would still be able to take the ball-in. He may not have been as quick as CP3, but there's no telling what may occur.Overall, the legends would school their prototypes. End of story.
^ Yeah and that is mostly because the prototypes havent completely proven themselves like the originals did. Give them all time to do their damage until near their end of the career and it will be much closer.
<span style="font-family:Book Antiqua">^^Yeah, I know. However, some of them are already reaching their maximum potential, such as Vince Carter and Tim Duncan, while others are past it, such as Shaquille O' Neal. I do agree, though. Some of the aforementioned new school players will eventually be known as the "legends" and have newer players compared to them.</span>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Illosophee @ Oct 8 2006, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-family:Book Antiqua">^^Yeah, I know. However, some of them are already reaching their maximum potential, such as Vince Carter and Tim Duncan, while others are past it, such as Shaquille O' Neal. I do agree, though. Some of the aforementioned new school players will eventually be known as the "legends" and have newer players compared to them.</span></div>Yeah very true, I'm just speaking for those who fit the scenario.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ELiiiTE @ Oct 8 2006, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^ Yeah and that is mostly because the prototypes havent completely proven themselves like the originals did. Give them all time to do their damage until near their end of the career and it will be much closer.</div>Thankyou. Alot of these guys still have some good years ahead of them. If Kobe wins a few more championships and an MVP or 2 where he is the main guy on his team(which is nearly impossible for him not to be), then he might be considered as good as MJ. Sure, MJ had GREAT talent and GREAT statistics, but Kobe's last season were very impressive. He just didnt have the support to get anywhere in the playoffs. MJ is the best of all time because of his accomplishments and game winners IMO. The stats were great, but the Championships and leadership defines a player. Im not saying Kobe is better, but I dont think their talent is that far off what so ever. If anything, Kobe has more.Shaq is so much stronger than Wilt. I personally think Shaq in his prime would dominate Wilt in his prime. Wilt was going up agaisnt what would be todays SF's. He had it very easy back then. Todays game IMO is so much more developed. Players have more talent these days because they have seen the past and know what to build on. They have such an advantage. That is why Shaq is better than Wilt.Lebron is so much faster, more athletic than Magic that I dont think it would be close. Lebron is going to be top 3 of all time when he retires.Tim Duncan and Kevin McHale IMO arent even comparable. Tim Duncan is the best PF of all time, and he is a winner, leader, and is very consistent. If Tim Duncan shot more, he COULD have averaged 27 or 28 in his prime IMO. Due to the Spurs style of basketball, his statistics werent as great as alot of players. But his resume is flawless. Easily Duncan.Larry and Dirk IMO are pushes. Dirk has the height on him so I think it would be a great advantage. Yet, Larry is such a winner and amazing shooter and pretty good defender. If I had to go with anybody, I would say Larry.In the Bench comparison, I am going to have to go with the Legends. Although, I see Chris Paul being better than Isiah when its all said and done, and the same with Elton Brand. Besides that, the other three for the legends are better.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Oct 8 2006, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In the Bench comparison, I am going to have to go with the Legends. Although, I see Chris Paul being better than Isiah when its all said and done, and the same with Elton Brand. Besides that, the other three for the legends are better.</div>I'm not saying it's impossible but WOW............Isiah was able to lead his team to back to back titles in maybe the toughest era of basketball and that is no easy task. Karl Malone and John Stockton can't even get one and those two players are one of the greatest ever.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lakersfoelyfe @ Oct 8 2006, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not saying it's impossible but WOW............Isiah was able to lead his team to back to back titles in maybe the toughest era of basketball and that is no easy task. Karl Malone and John Stockton can't even get one and those two players are one of the greatest ever.</div>Actually considering what CP3 did even in 1 season, I could understand ballerman's statement and right now I agree with it. Chris Paul was amazing in his rookie year, I see so much potential and he has the right guys around him... even if he doesn't win a championship (and I think he has a chance to win at least 1) he will be a beast in his prime, makes you amazed just thinking about it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lakersfoelyfe @ Oct 8 2006, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not saying it's impossible but WOW............Isiah was able to lead his team to back to back titles in maybe the toughest era of basketball and that is no easy task. Karl Malone and John Stockton can't even get one and those two players are one of the greatest ever.</div>Actually considering what CP3 did even in 1 season, I could understand ballerman's statement and right now I agree with it. Chris Paul was amazing in his rookie year, I see so much potential and he has the right guys around him... even if he doesn't win a championship (and I think he has a chance to win at least 1) he will be a beast in his prime, makes you amazed just thinking about it.
<span style="font-family:Book Antiqua">I don't know whether or not I should guarantee anything, but I do believe that CP3, win a ring or not, will be considered better than Isiah Thomas by the end of his career. He has a good 12 or 13 seasons to go, so don't sweat about it right now.</span>
C- Champerlain VS ShaqPF- Malone VS KG SF- Bird VS DirkSG- Jordan VS KobePG- Stockton VS Nash<u>BENCH</u>C- Russel VS DuncanPF- Ewing VS BoshSF- Clyde VS T-MacSG- Reggie VS AllenPG- Oscar Robertson Vs LBJ
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (val_modus @ Oct 8 2006, 11:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>C- Champerlain VS ShaqPF- Malone VS KG SF- Bird VS DirkSG- Jordan VS KobePG- Stockton VS Nash<u>BENCH</u>C- Russel VS DuncanPF- <u>Ewing</u> VS BoshSF- Clyde VS T-MacSG- Reggie VS AllenPG- Oscar Robertson Vs LBJ</div> :HAHAHA: Bosh would not be near to Pat. Pat is arguably a top 5 Center of All-time. He had his chance at championships but never suceeded to the Bulls and health. I think TD is closer to the Maliman. TD and him are very similar except TD got the rings.
The legends would win.Wilt Chamberlain vs Shaquille O'neal. Wilt is FAR more skilled than Shaq and would score on him whenever he wants. Shaq could back down Wilt but since that's the only thing Shaq can do, Wilt can sooner adapt to stop it. Wilt is a better scorer, shooter and is about 200 times better than Shaq at rebounding. Besides, anybody who's ACTUALLY SEEN Wilt Chamberlain knows that he had an insane vertical jump and could block ANYTHING. Winner: Wilt Chamberlain.Kevin McHale vs Tim Duncan This would be a fun one. Honestly, McHale doesn't get enough credit, he was GREAT. He had so many post moves. TD may stop a few of them, but McHale is still getting his points. TD will score okay against the "slippery eel" but would get annoyed having to always shoot over those long ass arms. Seriously, if the NBA outlawed the bankshot, TD would be out of a job, whereas McHale would still have a lot of weapons. TD is a better rebounder and defender though.Winner: McHaleLarry Bird vs Dirk. Are you serious? Bird would talk so much sh*t he'd make poor Dirk cry, and then he'd drop 50 on him.Winner: BirdMichael Jordan vs Kobe Bryant Wow, this would be an awsome matchup, both players have deadly penetration, lethal fallaways, sick D, mad hops, are clutch as hell and have a competitive drive matched by no other. Both MJ and Kobe know how to get things done. Yet, MJ is the master of all that trickery. Kobe, as great as he is, still doesn't have all the little tricks that MJ had and that is the difference. Winner: Michael Jordan.Magic Johnson vs LeBron James Both are great all around players, I don't think I need to say much about that. However, Magic Johnson is about 40 times more clutch than LBJ. Has better court vision than LBJ, was a better passer, a stronger defender, a better rebounder and an equal shooter. The only thing LeBron has that's better than Magic's, is his scoring ability.Winner: Magic.See, the legends were called legends for a reason.I aint doin the bench.
^ If these are 1 on 1 matches I agree, but I'd say TimmyD and LBJ would win in their respective matches.LeBron can penetrate, and in a 1 on 1, it doesn't matter who's a better passer, courtvision, etc. I'm sure if you played them every day it'd be a different outcome because LeBron's defense is iffy but give him time to develop and I truly belive he could hands down beat Magic. As for rebounding, they are about equal, and I may even give Magic the edge because he did play a pg position.And Tim Duncan is maybe better then what you give him credit for. He's so fundamental, and that in itself can kill you... so simple yet he always gets the job done. He can rebound, D up on Kevin, etc... I think this would be one of the closer battles but I like Tim Duncan over McHale (performance-wise).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ELiiiTE @ Oct 8 2006, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Actually considering what CP3 did even in 1 season, I could understand ballerman's statement and right now I agree with it. Chris Paul was amazing in his rookie year, I see so much potential and he has the right guys around him... even if he doesn't win a championship (and I think he has a chance to win at least 1) he will be a beast in his prime, makes you amazed just thinking about it.</div>exactly what my point is, he had 1 good season and all of a sudden he is being compared to isiah thomas...........I got nothing against cp3 and yes maybe he'll end up better than thomas but to compare him to one of the 50 greatest players after 1 good year. how about we wait for him to string a few good seasons then we can start this comparison.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ Oct 9 2006, 12:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The legends would win.Wilt Chamberlain vs Shaquille O'neal. Wilt is FAR more skilled than Shaq and would score on him whenever he wants. Shaq could back down Wilt but since that's the only thing Shaq can do, Wilt can sooner adapt to stop it. Wilt is a better scorer, shooter and is about 200 times better than Shaq at rebounding. Besides, anybody who's ACTUALLY SEEN Wilt Chamberlain knows that he had an insane vertical jump and could block ANYTHING. Winner: Wilt Chamberlain.Kevin McHale vs Tim Duncan This would be a fun one. Honestly, McHale doesn't get enough credit, he was GREAT. He had so many post moves. TD may stop a few of them, but McHale is still getting his points. TD will score okay against the "slippery eel" but would get annoyed having to always shoot over those long ass arms. Seriously, if the NBA outlawed the bankshot, TD would be out of a job, whereas McHale would still have a lot of weapons. TD is a better rebounder and defender though.Winner: McHaleLarry Bird vs Dirk. Are you serious? Bird would talk so much sh*t he'd make poor Dirk cry, and then he'd drop 50 on him.Winner: BirdMichael Jordan vs Kobe Bryant Wow, this would be an awsome matchup, both players have deadly penetration, lethal fallaways, sick D, made hops, are clutch as hell and have a competitive drive matched by no other. Both MJ and Kobe know how to get things done. Yet, MJ is the master of all that trickery. Kobe, as great as he is, still doesn't have all the little tricks that MJ had and that is the difference. Winner: Michael Jordan.Magic Johnson vs LeBron James Both are great all around players, I don't think I need to say much about that. However, Magic Johnson is about 40 times more clutch than LBJ. Has better court vision than LBJ, was a better passer, a stronger defender, a better rebounder and an equal shooter. The only thing LeBron has that's better than Magic's, is his scoring ability.Winner: Magic.See, the legends were called legends for a reason.I aint doin the bench.</div>Alot of people just automatically start going straight to matchups, but there is alot more take into account than just the matchups. Some of the things to take into account, would be like how the team fits in together and chemistry, what rules are they playing by, alot of stuff like this. Are they going to be playing by the old rules of no zone defenses, and handchecks are allowed. Are the refs going to let the players play as physical as they played in the past? There is alot of stuff to think about if we could somehow get a time machine, and get these players when they were at their best, and bring them onto the same court to play.As for your matchups though, I will play around with some of them though. Shaq vs Wilt:You say that all Shaq has is backing his opponent down, Well when your 7'1, 325 pounds of mostly muscle, that's just smart basketball. Shaq backs his opponents down almost perfectly, putting his rear end out into the person leaning forward slightly to keep your balance from falling backwards should your defender move out of the way, and keeping the ball away from the man on your back. He also has very quick and nice moves that he does from that backdown, like that spin to the basket that he is extremely good at. I don't see anyway that Wilt could play defense on Shaq by himself and do a good job, I think Shaq would tear him apart. Especially if they are allowed to play more physically, because I know Wilt never had a 7'1 325 pound center with skills, throw his weight around on him. If they try to double team Shaq, Shaq is perhaps the best big man ever at passing out of a double team. He see's the court well, and makes good passes, as well as who would come to try to double team him? If Jordan or Bird comes, that leaves Nowitzki and Bryant open for an outside shot. If Magic comes to help out, Lebron would just cut through the lane to the basket, and it Shaq would get him the ball on the cut for a dunk. If Mchale comes, then Shaq would get Duncan the ball for an easy dunk or layup at the basket. You may be right, Shaq wouldn't be able to stop Wilt on the defensive side of things to well, but if they are allowed to play physically like in the past, I think Shaq would just push Wilt away from the basket and make him have to do more moves to get close. Overall I think Shaq would not need as much double team help on Wilt, as Wilt would need on Shaq, and that is why I think Shaq would win this matchup.Larry Bird vs Dirk Nowitzkiirk is taller than Larry Bird, and can move just as well if not better than Larry Bird could. Add to that, Dirk this season finally got good at getting to the rim with the ball, as well as posting up his players. Defensively Larry Bird would not be able to contain Nowitzki. Nowitzki would go in motion, cut along the baseline, run Larry Bird off picks set by guys like Shaq and Duncan, and Lebron James would be able to find him as he went into this motion. Defensively Dirk would not stop Bird, but what he would do at the offensive end would be equal to what Bird did at the offensive end in my opinion.Lebron James vs Magic Johnson:Lebron James would be way faster and more athletic than Johnson was. They are equal rebounders, and while Lebron James might not see the floor as well, his passes are just as crisp and clean as Magic Johnsons passes were. Lebron James is a better scorer though, and you can bet that the coach of this team would use Lebron James ability to create off the dribble to its fullest. With Magic not being able to stay in front of James, James would drive into the lane each time and force guys to have to step up to try to stop him, allowing James to get the ball to the open man created by his dribbling and passing ability. I think James being a better scorer than Magic Johnson gives him the advantage here and would really help out this team. You see how each of those matchups also ties into the team concept? Thats something I notice alot people on this board don't think about, is how these matchups would tie into the team concept. They just look at player for player, without thinking about the team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Oct 9 2006, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Alot of people just automatically start going straight to matchups, but there is alot more take into account than just the matchups. Some of the things to take into account, would be like how the team fits in together and chemistry, what rules are they playing by, alot of stuff like this. Are they going to be playing by the old rules of no zone defenses, and handchecks are allowed. Are the refs going to let the players play as physical as they played in the past? There is alot of stuff to think about if we could somehow get a time machine, and get these players when they were at their best, and bring them onto the same court to play.As for your matchups though, I will play around with some of them though. Shaq vs Wilt:You say that all Shaq has is backing his opponent down, Well when your 7'1, 325 pounds of mostly muscle, that's just smart basketball. Shaq backs his opponents down almost perfectly, putting his rear end out into the person leaning forward slightly to keep your balance from falling backwards should your defender move out of the way, and keeping the ball away from the man on your back. He also has very quick and nice moves that he does from that backdown, like that spin to the basket that he is extremely good at. I don't see anyway that Wilt could play defense on Shaq by himself and do a good job, I think Shaq would tear him apart. Especially if they are allowed to play more physically, because I know Wilt never had a 7'1 325 pound center with skills, throw his weight around on him. If they try to double team Shaq, Shaq is perhaps the best big man ever at passing out of a double team. He see's the court well, and makes good passes, as well as who would come to try to double team him? If Jordan or Bird comes, that leaves Nowitzki and Bryant open for an outside shot. If Magic comes to help out, Lebron would just cut through the lane to the basket, and it Shaq would get him the ball on the cut for a dunk. If Mchale comes, then Shaq would get Duncan the ball for an easy dunk or layup at the basket. You may be right, Shaq wouldn't be able to stop Wilt on the defensive side of things to well, but if they are allowed to play physically like in the past, I think Shaq would just push Wilt away from the basket and make him have to do more moves to get close. Overall I think Shaq would not need as much double team help on Wilt, as Wilt would need on Shaq, and that is why I think Shaq would win this matchup.Larry Bird vs Dirk Nowitzkiirk is taller than Larry Bird, and can move just as well if not better than Larry Bird could. Add to that, Dirk this season finally got good at getting to the rim with the ball, as well as posting up his players. Defensively Larry Bird would not be able to contain Nowitzki. Nowitzki would go in motion, cut along the baseline, run Larry Bird off picks set by guys like Shaq and Duncan, and Lebron James would be able to find him as he went into this motion. Defensively Dirk would not stop Bird, but what he would do at the offensive end would be equal to what Bird did at the offensive end in my opinion.Lebron James vs Magic Johnson:Lebron James would be way faster and more athletic than Johnson was. They are equal rebounders, and while Lebron James might not see the floor as well, his passes are just as crisp and clean as Magic Johnsons passes were. Lebron James is a better scorer though, and you can bet that the coach of this team would use Lebron James ability to create off the dribble to its fullest. With Magic not being able to stay in front of James, James would drive into the lane each time and force guys to have to step up to try to stop him, allowing James to get the ball to the open man created by his dribbling and passing ability. I think James being a better scorer than Magic Johnson gives him the advantage here and would really help out this team. You see how each of those matchups also ties into the team concept? Thats something I notice alot people on this board don't think about, is how these matchups would tie into the team concept. They just look at player for player, without thinking about the team.</div>Yeah Shaq can back Wilt down but, his repitoire is still limited, if Wilt can keep Shaq out of the paint, then Shaq wont do too much. Wilt can stand up to Shaq pretty well, I mean, everybody acts like Wilt was a stick. Trust me, he wasn't, he was 7'1" and 300 pounds and benched more than 400 pounds. He wasn't soft. But yeah, I see what you're saying. I didn't say Wilt would stop Shaq, but he would do a much better job one on one than the centers today are doing.You didn't think my Bird/Dirk matchup was funny? I did.LBJ is faster than Magic. But by no means should you underestimate Magic's D. I mean, he did manage to stay in front of MJ for the most part, he'd be able to do the same to James.
I did some researching, and everything I have looked at said that Wilt was about 7'1, 275. While Wilt might be able to stand up to Shaq better than most people have, the fact is 50 pounds is a huge weight differential. Add to that, Wilt had never played someone 7'1 325 pounds with the skills and knowledge of Shaq, and this would be a rough contest for Wilt. You say that if Wilt could keep Shaq out of the paint, then he would be fine, which is true. The problem is he wouldn't be able to keep Shaq out of the paint. I think Shaq would just be to strong and powerful, and because he would not be the first person to try to push Shaq out of the paint, and it has never really worked before.
Don't forget Wilt's athleticism, should Shaq back him down that far (most likely) Wilt can still reach Shaq's shot. If Wilt can just alter the shots then he's in business. Wilt was the prowdest rebounder ever and he'd make sure to box out the diesel and grab those misses. That to me is the difference. Also, Wilt doesn't have to stay in the paint on offense, he can swoop in with that sick finger roll he had or he could dust off that fallaway in order to stay away from Shaq. That's why I said Wilt wins that matchup.
