Official season is over and trade deadline thread

you are looking at it totally wrong. when ever these two teams get together the islanders as well as the devils want to play their best, when the rangers were good it was almost like the playoffs for the islanders when they played them. you are way off base on this.

 

But..but..we'll shower the other team with MDZ and Hagelin..they'll be fortunate to get that right(facepalm)?Or is that too much?lol

 

We agree Prod. Kane is a very good player. He is a 25-30 or so goal guy for the most part. And he has upside to do more if he fully develops. We agree.

I was talking more about Stepan compared to Kane. I'm sorry, but Kane is not THAT much better. He is better based on his big potential, but not to the point where I would give Stepan and a ton for Kane. I would not do that. As I said earlier I would do MDZ and Stepan for Kane if I had to, so we agree again (although I would try and get a pick back also from WPG).

So you and I pretty much agree. My "issue" is with people saying giving up Stepan and a lot on top is something that makes very little sense to me. I just don't see the huge difference between the two, outside of maybe someone saying Kane has so much potential. I am not saying I agree or disagree with that comment, but I would not pay a crazy amount of Stepan and a lot more to maybe take a shot at that potential. That's seems like too much of a gamble to me, when number wise Stepan is honestly worst case on par with Kane thus far.

 

It is always a battle with you. I think we are overrating Kane IN COMPARISON TO STEPAN. That's my point. I would go for Kane for sure. I said I would give Miller, MDZ, Hags, and a decent prospect or pick all for Kane. I just don't see Kane as this much better player than Stepan, and the numbers show he clearly isn't thus far.

 

Fill me in 31...which players did we say are better than Kane. And go...

Right, none...LOL.

Do I think Kane is much better than Stepan...NO.
Do the #'s show Kane is much better than Stepan...NO.
Would I deal Stepan and a little for Kane...YES.
Would I much rather deal a very solid package of MDZ, Hags, Miller, and a pick or prospect for Kane...YES.

That's a former 1st in MDZ. A former 1st in Miller. A top 9 forward who scores maybe 15 or so goals in Hags. And a decent prospect or decent pick all for Kane, who has 30 goals once.

If anything I said there is crazy let me know. If I knocked Kane there let me know. If I am being insane here let me know. Because I would love to see how anything I said is anything but logical.

As a matter of fact, the only crazy thing said today by anyone is we should deal Stepan, Miller, MDZ, a decent prospect, and a 1st all for Kane. That is insane. The only insane thing said today IMO.

 

I think the debate about trading Stepan for Kane is interesting. I don't see how this team gets better by adding Kane at the expense of Stepan + more

Stepan has been frustrating at times and looks very good for stretches. Have not watched Kane nearly as much but I suspect his wrap is similar.

Kane might never be more than a good 25-30 goal/60 point guy with really good intangibles. He could explode too but he is not a sure thing. I don't think you can include Stepan for that.

 

Exactly dis. I would do Stepan if I had no choice, but that's the very main part of the deal. Maybe I throw in MDZ as well if I plan to let him go this summer anyway, but add more...no way. That's my point exactly. Stepan is almost at the level of Kane based solely on each players careers so far (and actually based on numbers only Step has been better IMO), so why would I also throw in a ton more with Step...I wouldn't. That would be way over paying IMO.

Stepan and MDZ would be the max I would offer for Kane if they wanted Stepan for sure. And even then I would think long and hard, and would want a decent pick back.

 

So here is my question 31. If we had to deal Stepan, WPG wanted him for sure let's say, how much would you include with him for Kane?

And while I will not argue with you regarding Kane's ceiling being higher, although I am not sure I would say as much higher as you believe which is cool, up until now their #'s have been very similar and maybe even slight edge Stepan.

So with that being the case, how much would you include with Step to get Kane? I wouldn't give a ton more on top of Step, but that's just my opinion.

 

I wrote about the C situation above if we give up Step. Do we really want our 4 deep to be Richards-Brassard-Moore-Boyle? I'm nauseous thinking about it.

WPG isn't really a win-now team. I tell them take DZ, Miller, and any prospect you want other than McIlrath. If they insist on an NHL ready guy I say take Hags. I don't want to give up Step but if we do, it means the brass thinks this year is over and we restock at C during free agency.

 

We are on the same page 100% Prod. I don't see why we would have to deal Stepan in a package for Kane. If we make Miller, Hags, MDZ, a decent pick and/or a prospect available, that should be enough.

If WPG wants to get ridiculous value for Kane, value that would be pretty much solely based on his potential not his actual production, let someone else deal for him. I don't think we are in a position to deal a ton for a player who has been very good, but not great/dominant so far.

Outside of his 30 goal 57 point season, his numbers have just been okay, and that's the fact of it. Yes he is young. And yes there are other factors involved for sure. But I can't give up Step and a lot for a player who's numbers are pretty much the same as Stepan's so far.

 

We go no where by trading steph for kane....its a very minimal lateral move..aka vanick for moulson...it doesn't solve the answer. Losing a capable center for a scoring winger only will show the lack of depth at center and then it will be..we need a center to setul kane and nash

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We have a legitimate shot to draft first overall.

 

And who do we take number 1?

 

This awful smurf team is finished, and they need so much more than a mini rebuild. It is time to start over completely, top to bottom, and if Sather still gets to do it, there is no realistic hope for years. For myself, the only people I keep are Hank, McD, Kreider, Zucs, Hags, and maybe Cally. I consider JT Miller to be a prospect so he can stay. Everyone else can go bye bye.

Cally/would think of keeping him because he's the only one that until this year, played with that "refuse to lose" attitude. Maybe his shoulder isn't right or is still a bit cautious about really laying it on the line for fear of hurting it again.

Boyle, Dorsett, Poulliot, Moore, Pyatt/what needs to be said. They all stink and should be gone.

Mr. Softy, Nash. I don't get the love affair with this guy. Scored 40 a million years ago for a loser team. He basically hung at the blue line to pad his stats because his team was so bad there was nothing else he needed to do. Hasn't been close to 40 in years. Plays soft, has a loser mentality after a decade of losing, no edge to his game, and has been invisible in every big game we played last year. Make all the excuses you want for him. He's not a leader and not someone you build a team around.

Stepan/ has talent but is small, slow, easily knocked off the puck.

Richards/slow, older, too much money, not great anymore. We all know this.

Brassard/has some talent but doesn't usually use it, small, easily pushed around, and exactly what he was with CBJ.

Stralman/ average at best, 6/7 dman on a top team

Moore/good skater but doesn't use his size, so often out of position. Should get more grief than MDZ but for some reason doesn't.

MDZ/just hasn't developed the way most of us had hoped

Girardi/not playing well and not a kid anymore. Maybe he's just not adapting to the new coach or system. Could probably bring something good in return.

Falk/just not that good, slow, fumbles the puck a lot. Could get better but really, how much.

Staal/after the eye injury and 2 concussions may never get back to what he was.

Desperately need to make this team bigger, stronger, faster, and tough to play against. There are so many slow guys and small guys on this team. Count the smallish forwards. Hags, Zucs, Brassard, Cally, Stepan. That is 5 out of the top 6. The few bigger guys we have are total marshmallows. No protectors, hitters, or tough dmen. Geez, this is the softest team in the league right now. Henrik gets elbowed to the head and no one does anything. Can you imagine if that happened to Rask? Anyone who thinks this team is making the playoffs or just needs a mini rebuild is dreaming.

 

The team will be re-built this summer. We have too many FA's for it not to be. I think we have 1/2 the forwards and 1/2 the dmen changed for next season. That is a re-build, and we have the cap space and free agents to get it done. Add in a top 5 or so pick, and things are in place IF it is done correctly. And there is the issue fellas...will it be done correctly.

 

Excellent post, NYR. I would keep Stepan though and I can live with Dorsett on the 4th line.

 

Stepupstepan, I do like your namesake, but his lack of speed and size bothers me. If he was the 3rd line center, with 2 bigger and faster centers on the 1st 2 lines, I'd be fine with him there. I do believe we'd get a pretty good return for him though.

Chuck, I hear what you're saying, but the FA route never works. If you've already built a team, and need 1 or 2 FA's to get over the hump, that works. Having to get as many players as we need, it'll be a collection of individuals playing for themselves, not a "team" playing for each other. Do the years 2000-2004 ring a bell? Time to suffer for a few years, get picks and young kids, and let them grow together like we did a few years ago. It's the hard way but the right way. Our biggest problem will be the same as always. SATHER.

 

Again, the key is SMART SIGNINGS. That is the issue. I have little faith in Sather to do that, but that is what we need to do.

The plan to sell of players, get picks, and we'll meet up again in 2018 doesn't work...just doesn't. We are not wasting the rest of Hank's prime with crappy teams for 4 years. We won't do it, and shouldn't.

Take the top 5 pick. Take the 37.5 mill in cap space. Take the nice core and great goalie. Make smart moves this summer. We can be near the top next season if we do it right. That's the key...SATHER.