<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Oct 22 2006, 01:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Stephen Jackson? I said granger, harrington, and daniels as well. stephen jackson would be like the 4th option to guard kobe.</div>That's still a joke, I'm sorry.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lakaboy42 @ Oct 22 2006, 03:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I seriously hope you're kidding. Kobe is one of the greateset scoring machines in NBA history. He's burned just about every top notch defender in the league. If Phil Jackson told him he needed to take over for them to win the game, he would destroy anyone the Pacers would put on him. They would need to double him, which would leave Odom open to score. If they put Harrington on Odom, LA has one of the best spot up shooters in the league in Radmanovich who would make them pay.</div>I was at a pacers game last year where we beat the lakers like 115 to 90 and Kobe only scored 15. Jermaine and artest didn't play in that game. We also outrebounded the lakers like 58 o 38. I think we had fred jones and jackson on kobe the whole game and he only scored 15. Odom looked good but we won by about 25 points so obciously lamar won't do squat. Radmonovich is not going to win you games. At best he is a 40% 3 point shooter. To win the game he'd have to hit like 20 three pointers. No way phil would let him shoot eighty 3 pointers to make 20. Pacers would win wether you like it or not.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LakersFan247 @ Oct 22 2006, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That's still a joke, I'm sorry.</div>let's see1) granger 6'9", ball theft, shot blocker, great reflexes, next pippen2) harrington 6'9", tough as nails, one of the most athletic players in the league3) dainels 6'6" (same height as kobe), athletic, has a nose for the ball, quick, tough4) jackson 6'8", above average defender, will also give you 18 points on offense all these players are the same height or bigger than kobe, all are athletic defensive players, and all are extremely tough players, especially granger (artest wasw his mentor)still think it's a joke?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Oct 22 2006, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, we do.Youre not understanding that it is impossible to stop Kobe.</div>then why'd he only score 15 while being guarded by fred jones and stephen jackson the whole game? doesn't sound like it's impossible.
IF healthy, the Pacers win this one. They are a much more balanced, overall talented, and much deeper team. The big men in Indiana just murder what LA has. I mean JO is an All-Star, Al Harrington is good, Jeff Foster is an excellent rebounder, David Harrison is a beast. I love Lamar Odom, so this is no knock on him, but Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Ronny Turiaf, and Brian Cook don't stand a chance against Indy's bigs. Then at the PG spot, wow Indiana is deeper as well. I think Tinsley is a top 15 PG in the NBA when he's healthy, easily. Then you got Saras off the bench and Amrstrong for veteran leadership. Daniels can even drop down to the 1 if needed. Then they even have Orien Greene for defense. On the wing, LA obviously has probably the best player in the world and overall the wings are about even. Kobe is the best player in the world, Radmanovic is a lights out shooter, Evans provides energy, and Walton has a real good all-around game. In Indy, they don't have a star on the wing, but Jackson is a 17+ scorer, Granger is on the rise, Daniels is a solid player who can play 3 positions, and they have 2 solid young guys in Shawne Williams (who wasn't mentioned) and James White. Both teams have excellent coaches and fans as well. Indiana when healthy > LA Lakers <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Oct 22 2006, 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>then why'd he only score 15 while being guarded by fred jones and stephen jackson the whole game? doesn't sound like it's impossible.</div> That had nothing to do with Jack/Jones guarding him, it had to do with Kobe having a rare off night.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Oct 22 2006, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>then why'd he only score 15 while being guarded by fred jones and stephen jackson the whole game? doesn't sound like it's impossible.</div>Obviously because of an off night. You wanna know about the other time Kobe played the Pacers? He got 45 points, and 10 boards.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Oct 22 2006, 04:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Obviously because of an off night. You wanna know about the other time Kobe played the Pacers? He got 45 points, and 10 boards.</div>you guys think every time kobe scores 40+ that the lakers will win. that's not true at all.the pacers are way better because we have balance. you have kobe.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Oct 22 2006, 01:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I was at a pacers game last year where we beat the lakers like 115 to 90 and Kobe only scored 15. Jermaine and artest didn't play in that game. We also outrebounded the lakers like 58 o 38. I think we had fred jones and jackson on kobe the whole game and he only scored 15. Odom looked good but we won by about 25 points so obciously lamar won't do squat.</div>I remember that game, it was the second night of a back to back on the road for LA, and Kobe was having an off game. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Oct 22 2006, 01:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Radmonovich is not going to win you games. At best he is a 40% 3 point shooter. To win the game he'd have to hit like 20 three pointers. No way phil would let him shoot eighty 3 pointers to make 20.</div>First off, Radmanovich doesn't need to score 60 for LA to win the game, that's ridiculous. Second, you say he's a 40% 3 point shooter. Then you say he needs to take 80 shots to make 20. That would mean he's a 25% shooter.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Oct 22 2006, 01:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1) granger 6'9", ball theft, shot blocker, great reflexes, next pippen2) harrington 6'9", tough as nails, one of the most athletic players in the league3) dainels 6'6" (same height as kobe), athletic, has a nose for the ball, quick, tough4) jackson 6'8", above average defender, will also give you 18 points on offense</div>I don't doubt that those guys are above average defenders, but it doesn't matter for Kobe. Some think Ron Artest is the best wing defender in the league, Kobe put up 36, 10, and 5 against him. Others think Bowen is, Kobe got 43 points on over 50% shooting on him. Some might even venture to call Raja Bell the best wing defender in the league, and Kobe dropped 51 on him. He would have no trouble at all schoolin Harrington, Granger, Daniels, or Jackson. Oh and BTW, Granger's not the next Pippen.
Yeah, Kobe can take over games by himself. I cant believe alot of you are sayiing the Pacers. The Lakers also have Phil Jackson, who is the greatest NBA coach in history. A huge part of the reason why the Lakers were up 3-1 on the Suns is because of good coaching.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lakaboy42 @ Oct 22 2006, 04:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I remember that game, it was the second night of a back to back on the road for LA, and Kobe was having an off game. First off, Radmanovich doesn't need to score 60 for LA to win the game, that's ridiculous. Second, you say he's a 40% 3 point shooter. Then you say he needs to take 80 shots to make 20. That would mean he's a 25% shooter.I don't doubt that those guys are above average defenders, but it doesn't matter for Kobe. Some think Ron Artest is the best wing defender in the league, Kobe put up 36, 10, and 5 against him. Others think Bowen is, Kobe got 43 points on over 50% shooting on him. Some might even venture to call Raja Bell the best wing defender in the league, and Kobe dropped 51 on him. He would have no trouble at all schoolin Harrington, Granger, Daniels, or Jackson. Oh and BTW, Granger's not the next Pippen.</div>sorry my math is bad. 50 shots.we have 4 great wing defenders, not 1 like artest or bowen. there's also shawne williams (shot blocker) and james white (one of the best ball thefts in college ball last year).granger is the next pippen. artest and bird said so. :rock:<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Oct 22 2006, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, Kobe can take over games by himself. I cant believe alot of you are sayiing the Pacers. The Lakers also have Phil Jackson, who is the greatest NBA coach in history. A huge part of the reason why the Lakers were up 3-1 on the Suns is because of good coaching.</div>then they lost 4-3. that doesn't make sense.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Oct 22 2006, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>we have 4 great wing defenders, not 1 like artest or bowen. there's also shawne williams (shot blocker) and james white (one of the best ball thefts in college ball last year).</div>How is having 4 okay wing defenders better than having 1 elite wing defender better when trying to guard one player?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Oct 22 2006, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>granger is the next pippen. artest and bird said so. :rock:then they lost 4-3. that doesn't make sense. </div>People in organizations overrate their players all the time. And about the coaching, Phil Jackson's system and coaching were the reason they took the lead in that series. The only reason they couldn't win it was because Smush Parker had a breakdown and couldn't play for sh*t any more, there was nothing Jackson could do about that.
sounds like you laker fans are blaming all your losses on breakdownsif the pacers lose we dont even blame it on injuries.we blame it on our play on the court, like men.bird and artest both speak their mind. no way are they overating players.and phil jackson can't do squat with his triangle offense now that he has a ballhog (kobe), two big underacheivers (kwame, odom), and a bunch of d-league quality players.
Well, I think this arguement is just about over, since you've abandoned your points and are now just going for petty insults. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Oct 22 2006, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>bird and artest both speak their mind. no way are they overating players.</div>First off, I'd like to see a quote of both of them actually saying that Granger is the next Scottie Pippen. Even if they did, and even if they believe it and it's not just lip service (which it always is in a situation like this) it's their opinion, it's hardly fact. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Oct 22 2006, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>and phil jackson can't do squat with his triangle offense now that he has a ballhog (kobe), two big underacheivers (kwame, odom), and a bunch of d-league quality players.</div>He got that group of underachievers and D-League quality players to the playoffs last year, so obviously he can.
I don't think anyone here really thinks that they can limit KOBE's avg to 15 pts. in a 7 game series, maybe one game but that's it. We don't determine which team is better by going player by player..........it's all about team chemistry, which team can play better as one. A good example is the Lakers/Suns series, KOBE and Lamar are the only players who will start for another team and the rest are questionable. How did they end up with a 3-1 lead when Phoenix has a better roster............. now just because the Pacers has a more balance team then they should win over the Lakers ???Phil Jackson is the best coach I've ever seen when it comes to adjustment in a playoff series, he impressed me of what he did last season especially in the playoffs...............him being able to use kwame as low post threat was very impressive, the same kwame who can't even catch a ball. The way he control each game/series by itself is a pleasure to watch.Obviously you can't predict what will happen but in a 7 game series I give the Lakers a slight advantage just because Phil and KOBE.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lakaboy42 @ Oct 22 2006, 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well, I think this arguement is just about over, since you've abandoned your points and are now just going for petty insults. First off, I'd like to see a quote of both of them actually saying that Granger is the next Scottie Pippen. Even if they did, and even if they believe it and it's not just lip service (which it always is in a situation like this) it's their opinion, it's hardly fact. He got that group of underachievers and D-League quality players to the playoffs last year, so obviously he can.</div>he got them to the playoffs on what, an 8th seed? there are only about 6 or 7 championship contenders in the whole NBA. None of them are the Lakers. If the Pacers are healthy, they are championship contenders.your right about the argument being over. the pacers won.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lakersfoelyfe @ Oct 22 2006, 05:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't think anyone here really thinks that they can limit KOBE's avg to 15 pts. in a 7 game series, maybe one game but that's it. We don't determine which team is better by going player by player..........it's all about team chemistry, which team can play better as one. A good example is the Lakers/Suns series, KOBE and Lamar are the only players who will start for another team and the rest are questionable. How did they end up with a 3-1 lead when Phoenix has a better roster............. now just because the Pacers has a more balance team then they should win over the Lakers ???Phil Jackson is the best coach I've ever seen when it comes to adjustment in a playoff series, he impressed me of what he did last season especially in the playoffs...............him being able to use kwame as low post threat was very impressive, the same kwame who can't even catch a ball. The way he control each game/series by itself is a pleasure to watch.Obviously you can't predict what will happen but in a 7 game series I give the Lakers a slight advantage just because Phil and KOBE.</div>we will win on balance.tinsley - playmakergreene- defenderarmstrong- leaderwhite- scorer/defenderjackson- scorermarshall- scorerwilliams- defender/role playergranger- multidimensionalharrington- scorer, athletiscismo'neal- franchise player, scorer, defender, rebounder, 5 time all-starbaston- defender, rebounderfoster- one of the best 48 minute productivities in the nbaharrison- enforcerdaniels- multidimensional, versatilitylooks like the most balanced roster in the nbaall we need is health, which players said they've been working on via workots and food
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Oct 22 2006, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>he got them to the playoffs on what, an 8th seed? there are only about 6 or 7 championship contenders in the whole NBA. None of them are the Lakers. If the Pacers are healthy, they are championship contenders.</div>He got them to the 7th spot (would've been much higher if they hadn't started off slow as a result of never having played the offense). He also came up with a way for this 7th seed to beat a 2nd seed, but one player messed it all up (Smush). The Pacers lost to the Nets handily in the First Round last year. I wouldn't even call New Jersey a contender. If I had to pick the title contenders in the league, I'd say Miami, Detroit, Chicago, Dallas, San Antonio, and Phoenix. That's it. Indiana isn't on that level.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lakaboy42 @ Oct 22 2006, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He got them to the 7th spot (would've been much higher if they hadn't started off slow as a result of never having played the offense). He also came up with a way for this 7th seed to beat a 2nd seed, but one player messed it all up (Smush). The Pacers lost to the Nets handily in the First Round last year. I wouldn't even call New Jersey a contender. If I had to pick the title contenders in the league, I'd say Miami, Detroit, Chicago, Dallas, San Antonio, and Phoenix. That's it. Indiana isn't on that level.</div>we're not talking about last ear. we're talking abou this year. and the additions to the team make this year look real good.[quote name='Lakaboy42' date='Oct 22 2006, 05:34 PM' post='181728']He got them to the 7th spot (would've been much higher if they hadn't started off slow as a result of never having played the offense). He also came up with a way for this 7th seed to beat a 2nd seed, but one player messed it all up (Smush).there you go again. blaming it on breakdowns. how many losses will it take for you guys blame it on the play of your team?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Oct 22 2006, 05:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>we will win on balance.tinsley - playmakergreene- defenderarmstrong- leaderwhite- scorer/defenderjackson- scorermarshall- scorerwilliams- defender/role playergranger- multidimensionalharrington- scorer, athletiscismo'neal- franchise player, scorer, defender, rebounder, 5 time all-starbaston- defender, rebounderfoster- one of the best 48 minute productivities in the nbaharrison- enforcerdaniels- multidimensional, versatilitylooks like the most balanced roster in the nbaall we need is health, which players said they've been working on via workots and food</div>I respect your opinion but that doesn't prove anything, I can go; KOBE3-time NBA Champion: 2000, 2001, 2002 8-time NBA All-Star: 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 NBA All-Star Game MVP: 2002 NBA Scoring Champion: 2006 (35.4) 8-time All-NBA Selection: First Team: 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006 Second Team: 2000, 2001 Third Team: 1999, 2005 6-time All-Defensive Selection: First Team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006 Second Team: 2001, 2002you think me saying all those will make the Lakers win, of course not..........all you did is describe what each player is capable of doing but unfortunately those doesn't translate to a win. You still have to execute and Phil's team is one of the best in recent years, including last year.
Man, do you understand what a breakdown is? It's when a player all of a sudden for some reason just starts playing terrible, I never blamed the loss on anything besides that, the play on the court.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lakaboy42 @ Oct 22 2006, 05:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Man, do you understand what a breakdown is? It's when a player all of a sudden for some reason just starts playing terrible, I never blamed the loss on anything besides that, the play on the court.</div>what the heck? all you guys have been doing is blaming every loss I point out on a breakdown.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lakersfoelyfe @ Oct 22 2006, 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I respect your opinion but that doesn't prove anything, I can go; KOBE3-time NBA Champion: 2000, 2001, 2002 8-time NBA All-Star: 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 NBA All-Star Game MVP: 2002 NBA Scoring Champion: 2006 (35.4) 8-time All-NBA Selection: First Team: 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006 Second Team: 2000, 2001 Third Team: 1999, 2005 6-time All-Defensive Selection: First Team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006 Second Team: 2001, 2002you think me saying all those will make the Lakers win, of course not..........all you did is describe what each player is capable of doing but unfortunately those doesn't translate to a win. You still have to execute and Phil's team is one of the best in recent years, including last year.</div>let's see here3 championship rings - gee, thanks shaq8 time all star - gee, thanks shaq for keeping the defense honestnba scoring champ- well gosh you see, it's not hard to be a scoring champ when you're a black hole on offensefirst second third team- once again- thanks shaqdefensive team- all right, he can play defense, I won't take that away from himpretty mcuh, he won alot from playing with shaq, and learning from shaqand besides, why list kobe's creditionals? it doesn't mean he's going to win. which he hasn't by himself.I'm not knocking on kobe. he's the most talented player in the nba. but he isn't a winner. the pacers are.you laker fan aren't listing why you guys would win. all you're listing is names. names may sound good, but they sure as heck ain't gonna win.
