Meyers kinda reminds me of this sometimes [video=youtube;HPPj6viIBmU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPPj6viIBmU[/video]
Actually, it's the things that don't show up in the boxscore that the net on court/off court stats are supposed to show. How do the little things, setting picks, spacing the floor, taking charges, drawing double teams, etc. impact a team's performance when a certain player is on the court. Given a large enough sample size, if those things you mention TRob does are having a positive impact on his team, it will show up in his net on court/off court stat. Unfortunately, for guys like Robinson and Leonard, it takes a while to accumulate a relevant sample size. So far, the measure of on court/off court impact favors Leonard, but that could change once both players accumulate more PT. BNM
I think the problem is with Stotts shuffling the rotation (Leonard instead of Robinson, Barton instead of Wright) and with McCollum being activated roles are becoming less clear. Players have gotten used to playing the same rotations and are now forced into lineups they are not as comfortable or confident in. It will probably take a little time before Stotts finds the right rotation to play regularly.
Sooooo it's exactly what I said it was? Obviously there will be multiple bench players replacing any given starter. My point was simply that a starter's net on/off will ALWAYS be influenced by the quality of the bench, and vice versa. The statistic is a difference (i.e. subtraction) between performance of the team when the player is on vs. when he is off. This means it is influenced not only by how well the player does, but also how well his replacements do. (See my Aldridge example.) Sample size is always important, but it has no bearing on the effect I'm describing. Better replacements for a player = worse net on/off statistic for him as an individual. And vice versa. Close. It's showing that the starters outscore their opponents compared to the bench. If the starters all outscored their opponents by 30, and the bench all outscored theirs by 15, the bench players would STILL have a negative net on/off score. Actually, all teams must, out of mathematical necessity, have both positive and negative net on/off statistics, since they are all relative to each other. The sum of all net on/off scores on a team, weighted by playing time, will always equal zero (except maybe for teams with traded players). That all may be true, but your conclusion is not supported by the stat in the way that you think it is. It's a relative stat comparing a player to his replacements, and is therefore not an absolute indication of how well that player does against his opposition. A player who beasts every night will still get a negative score if his replacement(s) always beast even harder. Look at what I'm saying and check the numbers again for yourself -- every description of the stat I've seen supports my interpretation.
I still think it's commendable that Stotts will play every guy on the bench in a blow out. Barton has earned minutes and I was glad to see some TRob last game. Meyers is improving, even if you only look at his blooper reels. CJ has yet to score a pt against a real NBA defense, so I'm not crowning him anything yet.
Well, he needs to find them playing time in order to develop them for next season. Our team already traded next year's first round draft pick (top 12 protected) to Charlotte and 5 future second round draft picks to other teams. Our team is also over the salary cap. Our options for adding players next season will be limited to only a few options. Olshey will need to be creative in order to beef up our interior defense and bench talent.
Still a coincidence. Great to see TRob go off with a passion. The Leonard experiment may be over (for the time being).
Wright didn't play much the last couple games if I remember. I'm glad Stotts isn't giving the vets leeway for minutes. If you aren't performing, you will be benched. Good way of thinking because the players behind them will know if they play hard, they will get burn.
Yeah, if Stotts can get more out of his bench through "capitalism." that's great! Make them compete against each other and want it more.
Indeed! I thoroughly enjoyed Robinson's spirited performance last night. Losing his spot in the rotation clearly lit a fire under him, and that's a good thing. Because, unlike some posters here, who are so invested in their own negative opinions they actually take great satisfaction in seeing certain players fail, I want to see ALL of our players improve. It makes the team better, and that's a good thing. I love the fact that Freeland, Leonard and Robinson are all competing for our backup big man minutes. It's pushing them all to improve. We saw Freeland's obvious improvement over the summer. He went from being completely lost to a solid contributor off the bench. He earned his minutes by doing the "little" things that help the team (rebounding, good position defense in the paint, setting good picks, etc.) and set an example for Leonard. I know some here hate Leonard so much (they refuse to spell his name correctly) and therefore refuse to acknowledge his obvious improvement. He went from being a very weak rebounder to rebounding at an elite level. His position defense is also noticeably improved. He still has a long way to go, which is why I'm glad to see the competition for PT between these three as it will push them all to continue to improve, but he seems to have learned how to go straight up on defense when protecting the rim, like Freeland. Proper rebounding technique and proper defensive positioning can be taught, and I'm thrilled to see both Freeland and Leonard showing improvement in these areas. And now, we are seeing Robinson playing inspired ball after being benched in favor of Leonard. Everyone is talking about the energy Robinson brought last night. That's not what impressed me the most. He almost always brings that energy. What impressed me last night was he cut down on the unforced errors and stupid decisions. He did not try to force his own offense. He played within the flow of the game. He also did not lose his man on defense. It was one game and only 11 minutes, but it's clear that the coaches have been working with him and telling him what areas he needs to improve to help the team and earn minutes in the rotation. It's also clear the coaches did the same thing with Freeland and Leonard, told them they need to improve their rebounding and position defense in order to earn minutes. So, I'm very happy that all three players are showing improvement. I hope they will continue to work with the coaches, learn from their mistakes and successes, and continue to improve. BNM
TripTango you bring up some very good insights about net On/Off court. If you look at other NBA teams they all have a near equal mix of positive and negative net on/off court stats. If you look at the Thunder every one of their starters including Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka have a negative net on/off rating. I think it would make more sense to look at just the on court +/-. The net figure should be ignored.
Yeah, it's tricky. The whole appeal of advanced stats lies in taking many aspects of a player's game into account -- all those little intangibles that don't show up in the raw box score. The problem with that, though, is that if you add too many layers, it can be nearly impossible to figure out what your final number even means. To be honest, those Thunder numbers make absolutely no sense to me at the moment. My first thought was that Durant's numbers were messed up by how little time he spent off the court, giving small garbage minutes too much significance, but Sefalosha and Ibaka have similarly negative values, with far more reasonable playing time percentages... I just don't know. I also don't watch enough OKC basketball to have any deep insights on how their lineups and rotations might be causing these crazy numbers. Anybody got any ideas? Also, just so we don't get too derailed from the original topic, I've got this crazy idea: why don't we keep T-Rob AND Nardo on the team for awhile? You know, unless some kind of awesome, no-brainer trade comes up involving either one? Just a suggestion.
