Pledge of Allegiance

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by playaofthegame, Oct 20, 2006.

  1. ReppinTheD

    ReppinTheD BBW VIP

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Oct 21 2006, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This is the part that boggles my mind. You are so worried about what other people do. You're willing to go into law enforcement but not to stand up for a pledge? What does it have to do with other people? If they don't understand it, so what? If you understand it, and it's meaningful to you, then yeah, I don't see the difference. A lot of people follow the law only because they have to, not because they are good people or actually agree with the law. Does that mean you go out and break the law just because it's holding people down or something?Anyway, the point was making was not towards anyone in particular, but it seems like most people in high school that sit down for the pledge have this attitude like anyone actually cares. Oh man you got sent to the prinicipal's office, what a rebel! I mean really, in the grand scheme of things, no one really cares. If you want to sit down, sit down. The one thing I can not agree with is calling your teacher a bitchass just because they think you should be standing. That's one of the reasons it seems like you're trying to act hard or whatever.</div>It's not that people are against saying the pledge, it's that they're against the notion of the pledge somehow makes you patriotic, and it somehow is a way to pay dues, and respects to your country. I understand that it only takes literally about 30 seconds to say, I understand that - but that's not our point - it's not like we're too lazy to say it. Our level of thinking isn't that low. The way I see it is this:Where do you usually see the majority of people saying the pledge? You usually see it started in grade school - and it continues sometimes all the way to High School (Although, in my case, the ritual of saying the pledge stopped in Middle School). I have never seen it being mandatory at the work place, or anywhere else - only in schools is it 'mandatory' to say the pledge. Why is that? Why is it that only children are made to say the pledge? Well, to compliment my argument, I know no child that says the pledge because they are proud of their country, or respectful of their country. When I was in elementary and middle school, I have never seen anyone do the pledge for those reasons. My school told the children what to do, they made it to be some kind of fun and exciting thing to do. Every day one of the children were selected to read the pledge in front of the whole school - they felt special for being picked, and I remember how everyone wanted to be the one to say the pledge. Obviously children weren't saying the pledge for it's real purpose. So why is it still mandatory for children to say it if they don't even understand the meaning of the pledge? I think it's simply to pre-dispose children into liking their country. It's is a cheap way of putting ideas into children's minds so they can be pre-disposed to thinking a certain way. Why else would they make it mandatory in younger level school? Why else would they make it mandatory...like I said, no child actually does the pledge to pay their dues - that simply isn't the case. This method of implementing ideas into a child's vulnerable mind isn't something new. This same thing happens all the time - just in a different medium. Cartoons, sitcoms, advertising, and television are the biggest brainwashing tools used even today. In advertising, it is proven that Cigarette companies try to get smoking into young minds just so they can be pre-disposed to smoking later. Why do they make 'fun' characters out of Cigarette brands - for example - the Kool Camel. Advertising companies, in an effort to appeal to younger future customers use these 'fun' characters so their name could be put in their minds so when they do smoke they choose Camel. This stuff has been proven over and over again. Sitcoms - Give us how the perfect family should be. What the brother's role should be, what the sisters role should be. These things appeal to younger children, and they take these shows to heart. Boys like tough things like the Army, and explosions, and gross stuff; Girls like barbies, and pink stuff. All that stuff didn't just come to us, it was told to us by these companies. So - this stuff seems pretty tricky, and it seems very deviant - the idea of putting concepts in children's minds before they can make rational decisions for themselves is very immoral...most of you will agree to that. So in that case, why is it ok for the schools or government to make the Pledge of Allegiance mandatory in schools? It's Not. I don't disagree with the pledge and it's message - I support my country, and I also respect my country. However, the fact that the pledge only serves as a way to pre-dispose children to certain beliefs about their country is just wrong. There is no purpose for it in schools, period.I just don't like the ideas behind it - If you don't say the pledge, or if you sit down during the pledge than you are viewed as unpatriotic and disprespectful - and teachers tell us that! If you truely want to be patriotic and a defendant of your country, than do something that actually benefits your country. In today's times - President Bush essentially just suspended the most important thing in the Constitution - HABEUS CORPUS. I view those who debate against this, who protest against this and use their American rights, they are the ones who are patriotic. Just because I say the pledge doesn't mean I am patriotic, just because someone waves a flag in their front lawn, doesn't mean they're patriotic - those things are just objects. What really matters is what your actions are to prove your patriotism. So to conclude: (I am sorry for this long post, but this is an important subject.)The Pledge of Allegiance, I do not disagree with. However, I do disagree with the deviant use of it. I also disagree that it is viewed as unpatriotic and disrespectful if you do not say it; and although this is a minor detail, the word God should not be included in the Pledge - the government represents all citizens, and all citizens are not worshippers of God. Again, sorry for the Essay - but if you just read this: :happy0144:
     
  2. Memphology

    Memphology BBW VIP

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    No your arguement isnt any good cause I dont think anybody is saying "hey, I say the pledge...im a full blown patriot", no, I dont think that, Im nowhere near a patriot like our soldiers are. Saying the pledge is something we do to show our "ALLEGIANCE" to our country and solders, hense it being called "the pledge of allegiance". Just shows that we do support our country(doesn't mean we are saying we are great patriots). And Playafolife is talking about "I dont do it cause its a waste of time", whats the F*ck is 30 seconds of your self obsorbed life. But yeah, your right, instead of showing repect to our country for 30 seconds, we should argue with our teacher and waste 5 minutes. [​IMG]
     
  3. Justice

    Justice BBW VIP

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    Why does every single freaking topic have to relate to Bush? This has nothing to do with Bush. Okay okay, I'm lying. Bush told me to say that because everything is a huge conspiracy. What I'm typing right now is a conspiracy against people who think the Pledge of Allegiance is stupid, and the Pledge of Allegiance is a conspiracy to make all our children believe that Bush is Jesus. In fact, Bush is a conspiracy to allow Jesus to attain the throne of King of America, when he returns to Earth.Edit: dont tell chaney plz!!
     
  4. playaofthegame

    playaofthegame AYO ADRIEN!

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I don't disagree with the pledge and it's message - I support my country, and I also respect my country. However, the fact that the pledge only serves as a way to pre-dispose children to certain beliefs about their country is just wrong. There is no purpose for it in schools, period.I just don't like the ideas behind it - If you don't say the pledge, or if you sit down during the pledge than you are viewed as unpatriotic and disprespectful - and teachers tell us that! If you truely want to be patriotic and a defendant of your country, than do something that actually benefits your country.</div>exactly...
     
  5. BrewCityBuck

    BrewCityBuck The guy with 17,000 Posts.

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Oct 21 2006, 10:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This is the part that boggles my mind. You are so worried about what other people do. You're willing to go into law enforcement but not to stand up for a pledge? What does it have to do with other people? If they don't understand it, so what? If you understand it, and it's meaningful to you, then yeah, I don't see the difference. A lot of people follow the law only because they have to, not because they are good people or actually agree with the law. Does that mean you go out and break the law just because it's holding people down or something?Anyway, the point was making was not towards anyone in particular, but it seems like most people in high school that sit down for the pledge have this attitude like anyone actually cares. Oh man you got sent to the prinicipal's office, what a rebel! I mean really, in the grand scheme of things, no one really cares. If you want to sit down, sit down. The one thing I can not agree with is calling your teacher a bitchass just because they think you should be standing. That's one of the reasons it seems like you're trying to act hard or whatever.</div> I was not at all trying to be a rebel, it was the teacher that made a big deal out of it. I didn't do the pledge my first 2 years in high school because the teachers didn't tell us to in my morning class...it it was the first time I was ever in the position to do it, the teacher had to be a bi*ch about it and call me out in front of class (right in the middle of the pledge I might add). I don't care about the god reference, I just don't think it should be in schools and I don't do it, it was never a problem until that teacher had an issue with it...which was wrong on her part. I don't think it should be in school, by law I don't have to do it, so I choose not to. It' my choice, I don't see the big deal. Who cares if some people don't do the pledge.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rok @ Oct 21 2006, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well, I was someone who just stood up and said it. Then sat down and moved on with the day during school. I didn't really care and no one made a big deal about through my 12 years of high school. But I guess some people who are athiests mainly feel they don't need to state it. Whatever floats their boat to be honest. I don't think it should be a issue. Let kids sit if they don't want to say it. It's like barely a minute of our lives.</div> You had 12 years of high school Rok? Haha. I agree with your post.
     
  6. playaofthegame

    playaofthegame AYO ADRIEN!

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    I probably shouldnt of added the God point..that wasnt really one of the points of my argument..more of a side note
     
  7. Memphology

    Memphology BBW VIP

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    I think everybody knows that just cause you say the pledge, it doesn't make you into a partiotic person, but its a sign of respect to our country, and our soldiers.
     
  8. Illosophee

    Illosophee BBW Elite Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (austingriz76 @ Oct 20 2006, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Its a tradition, and whole alot more people believe in God than people dont, it seems your just trying to be a rebel, we say the pledge of allegiance to honor the people who gave us the right to have freedom and gives us the right to live in a safe nation. Most of the US is made up of Jews, Muslims and Christians, which all three groups praise God(or Allah) for a blessing everyday. There a point, a point of respect for the millions of soldiers who have died in war and the soldiers who are in war right now serving our country. Seriously, whats 30 seconds of your time?</div><span style="font-family:Book Antiqua">I know I'm straying off topic here, but why the F*ck would you write "God (or Allah)". If you actually try to understand the meaning of Allah, the term means "God", except that it is in Arabic. I hate that about people with religions. I'm Atheist and I know more about most religions than you religious people do... :no1: How sad... This isn't just aimed at austingriz76. I hate anyone and everyone who claims that Allah isn't God. God = Allah, Allah = God. If you say things like, "God is > than Allah" or "Allah is a piece of sh*t", you're basically saying "God is > than God" or "God is a piece of sh*t". Languages... Deal with 'em. In Spanish, they call their God "Theo". Does that mean they have a different God? Last time I checked: Nope. Now, stop doing this for your God :worthy: and do it for me... J/K.Anyway, about the Pledge of Allegiance. I think it's a waste of time, too, but whatever. I do it anyway. Sometimes I don't do it and my Spanish teacher gets all pissed off like :ranting: I tell him to calm down and pray to his Mexican God, but he gets serious about that, too..</span>
     
  9. Memphology

    Memphology BBW VIP

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    When I put God(or Allah) I didnt mean to say thet "god" was better than Allah, if you would f*cking read my posts, you would see that in my point of view, God is Allah and Allah is God, and f*cking believe it or not, muslim say "Allah" in english most of the time. It is the name of their god, I have met very few muslims who refer to Allah by saying "God" unless they are talking to all monotheistic believers.
     
  10. Rok

    Rok BBW VIP

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>You had 12 years of high school Rok? Haha. I agree with your post.</div> :dunno: I was in a state of euphoria when I wrote that. :no1: But damn that was a horrible typo. I meant 12 years of school by the way, I am not entering my 13th year of high school.
     
  11. Illosophee

    Illosophee BBW Elite Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (austingriz76 @ Oct 21 2006, 07:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>When I put God(or Allah) I didnt mean to say thet "god" was better than Allah, if you would f*cking read my posts, you would see that in my point of view, God is Allah and Allah is God, and f*cking believe it or not, muslim say "Allah" in english most of the time. It is the name of their god, I have met very few muslims who refer to Allah by saying "God" unless they are talking to all monotheistic believers.</div><span style="font-family:Book Antiqua">So, once again, because they refer to God as Allah, all of a sudden, God/Allah are different Lords? Hmm... Your knowledge is questionable.</span>
     
  12. Memphology

    Memphology BBW VIP

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    Please tell me when I said that, seriously, dont you understand what I believe that they are the same being?
     
  13. TSpark

    TSpark BBW Member

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    It doesn't bother me. I respect and love the country I live in (USA). Is it that hard to stand up and show that you appreciate what these men and women who have went to war, and died for you do? I don't think it's that hard to do, so I stand during the pledge of allegiance to actually show some decency, and try to show appreciation.
     
  14. Justice

    Justice BBW VIP

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    The clear difference between Allah and God is that God supports Bush and Allah does not.
     
  15. BALLAHOLLIC

    BALLAHOLLIC Member

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    If you cant take 30 seconds out of your day to stand up for the Pledge of Allegiance than I dont know what to say.30 damn seconds...
     
  16. ReppinTheD

    ReppinTheD BBW VIP

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    Wow you guys keep saying 30 seconds, but thats not even the fu*kin point. I don't care how long it takes...go read some of the sh*t I wrote...because the 30 seconds thing is totally not the point.
     
  17. BrewCityBuck

    BrewCityBuck The guy with 17,000 Posts.

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ReppinTheD @ Oct 22 2006, 07:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wow you guys keep saying 30 seconds, but thats not even the fu*kin point. I don't care how long it takes...go read some of the sh*t I wrote...because the 30 seconds thing is totally not the point.</div> Exactly. If you don't want to do it why do they then want you to just go along with it when your not being geniune anyway. God forbid some people are different and have their own opinions.
     
  18. Memphology

    Memphology BBW VIP

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Oct 22 2006, 01:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The clear difference between Allah and God is that God supports Bush and Allah does not.</div>Dude, just shut up....
     
  19. Justice

    Justice BBW VIP

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    I didn't say people should or shouldn't, but I think the argument is pretty weak. And I don't think posting on the internet about it is significant at all. That's what your livejournal is for, crying about things. I don't mind you sitting down, but if someone older gets upset at you, don't come crying to me. It's pathetic.
     
  20. playaofthegame

    playaofthegame AYO ADRIEN!

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    nobody was crying to you...you didnt even have to get involved in the thread..that was your choicebut the point wasnt to "cry about it"it was to create a debate..I thought that's what this section was for..not for people to come in and defend there argument as "don't come crying to me. it's pathetic."
     

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