That's where we part. Again, I acknowledge I don't know where "marriage" originated. But if it's a religious thing, it should stay a religious thing. I'm really not quite sure if you read my post, or you'd have noticed that I have an issue with people having different rights. As long as the legal rights and benefits remain the same for everyone, I don't really care what the fuck it's called. But we also have a little thing called separation of church and state. So, both sides deserve so much protection. As long as basic human rights and benefits are given to all, the rest really doesn't matter. I mean, I pretty clearly said as long as everyone has the same rights.... "Marriage" to me is just a word. I know unmarried couples that live "married" if you want to call it that. But they're better and more committed to one another than other "married" couples. They don't have the legal rights and benefits "married" people do because they aren't legally "attached", "married", whatever you want to call it. I know plenty of people that make a mockery of being "married". What ultimately matters to me, is that if two people want to commit, great. They should be able to do that, and ultimately, gay couples have been able to make commitments for quite some time now. Commitment is in the heart and head. And if couples want to share benefits (health insurance, social security, file taxes jointly, etc, etc, etc), that's great too, they should be able to do that. But to me, that doesn't make you "married". If that's what you view as a marriage, I can see why people drop the "ball-and-chain" joke.
I've said similar things on this board several times. Oh, no? Am I now gay? Was I gay all along and I'm just now realizing this? :MARIS61:
You sorta answered just one of my four questions. There are many more questions that are solved by govt recognition of marriage.
I just find it sad that there are a billion issues our country has to face head on if we want to prosper in the future and people still get so hot about gay marriage. That does not hurt me in any fucking way. Gay people will be gay whether some like it or not. To me it is like worrying that your upstairs window has a sticky lock while ignoring that your garage door is stuck open.
its a nice issue for the parties to drive sheeple to the polls with, to distract them about the fact that they are so similar on pretty much every other issue
It is sad. Fuck, even my drive time sports guys couldn't shut up about the music awards and Michael Jackson hologram. People get distracted so easily.
It is rather on odd thing when you consider the issue just a little. Marriage as and institution was created along time ago in several different dispersed societies. A common answer arising from multiple disconnected societies as solution to a shared problem. They could not continue to allow women to produce children with no one in particular responsible for providing for the children. Marriage became the common answer with fathers responsible for providing for the well being of their children. Society required this joining and religions codified it. It has been good for society, it cause the development of the family and that has been good for society. Gay people, formerly known as homosexuals where alway with us, but free of this requirement. Society ask nothing of them and why should they, they would produce no burdens on society. Now Gay people want the same ceremony given to them by the society that requires it for the heterosexual members. Go figure!! The free want the shackle. But it seems to me that it just makes a mockery of the institution that has served society well for thousands of years.
BlazingGiants I'm still not sure of your point. Marriage actually originated as a property arrangment. It originally only applied to upper classes and was a way to cement alliances between clans/monarchs etc. and to secure inheritance. Also for a man to be sure that the children to whom he passed on his title and property were biologically his by controlling female sexuality. Obviously marriage has evolved. Like all social institutions. Which is why it makes me laugh when people say gay couples are trying to change the definition of marriage, when it's happened so many times already. As for your religious freedom statement, I also believe in religious freedom and no clergy person should be required to perform a marriage against his/her beliefs. No one is arguing otherwise. As I said, a Catholic priest is not required to marry a divorced person nor is an Orthodox rabbi required to perform a mixed marraige. These legal changes in marriage refer to state-issued licenses and their subequent rights/responsibilities. But religious freedom goes both ways. In North Carolina the United Church of Christ is a plaintiff in the suit challenging straight-only marriage, saying they believe in equality and are being denied their religious freedom to marry same sex couples. Also agree that same sex couples marrrying is hardly the biggest problem in the world today; in fact, not a problem at all unless someone has a fundamental belief that we are inferior human beings unfit for full participation in society.
For some reason without actively trying or having any direct influence I grew up thinking it was wrong to be gay. I can't specifically remember any single person who taught me it was bad. I knew I liked girls before kindergarten. Is being fat or deaf or short or ugly a crime against humanity? Nope, neither is being gay. Lucky for HCP. I did just realize I went to church as a kid. Might have picked it up there. Oh well, to anyone who thinks gay people are inferior or don't deserve equal rights....FUCK YOU!!
For that matter, bodyman, being straight is not a crime against humanity! See how we can look at things from opposite sides?
When I 8 or 9 yrs old I was playing in my room listening to this little AM radio one night. I had 62AM KGW on. The DJ came on and said the 10th caller wins tickets to some concert coming up. I had tried to win things on the radio before and raced downstairs and called the station. Ring...ring... "You're the 10th caller and you just won 2 tickets to the Village People concert!" Being the nice kid that I was I asked for an extra ticket so I could bring both of my parents. Much laughter from the DJ... agrees to give me 3 tickets. Asks my name and age, and then asked me to put an adult on the phone so I handed it to my very confused mother. Anyway, Craig Walker did the morning show on KGW and for the next week leading up to the show my request for an extra ticket was rebroadcast many times. Night of the concert both my parents and I went to the Village People concert. It was my first rock concert and it was killer! I learned how to spell out Y.M.C.A with my arms and for the encore the had this giant battleship looking thing on the stage and did In the Navy. Anyway, after the show on the drive home my parents asked how I liked the show and I asked them about some of the things I saw at the show. I can't remember exactly what I asked, something about some of the people in the crowd but I remember my parents explaining to me what homosexuality is. TLDR: I learned about homosexuality at a Village People concert and it was really cool.
Pretty funny, Dog. I also grew up thinking it was wrong to be gay. The only images we ever saw were evil, child molesting gay men and barren bitter ugly lesbians. So when I was very young I told myself that of course I was not an evil lezzy, after all, doesn't every girl want to kiss other girls? Doesn't every girl think about how soft another girl's skin is? Hell, I even had a boyfriend for a time (who later came out, gaydar!) It was not until Stonewall and the first women's liberation marches that I saw and heard nice normal looking smiling happy women of every size, shape and color who said yes, I'm gay. And I read about how they felt and how they came out and thought, damn, yes, those were my feelings and that's what I am... and it is just fine!
I never knew it had anything to do with homosexuality until last week. Then I guess I don't quite get the reference or don't care. I liked the song when it was a hit, they played it a lot in some of the places we spent the evenings in Cabo San Lucas. We were there, the whole family living on a sail boat at that time. Y-M-C-A.
