Breaking News! Bulls avoid LT!

Discussion in 'Chicago Bulls' started by TomBoerwinkle#1, Jun 3, 2014.

  1. TomBoerwinkle#1

    TomBoerwinkle#1 Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Let the latest round of Reinsdorf flogging begin.

    http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/02/chicago-bulls-avoid-the-luxury-tax/

     
  2. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    While I appreciate the math work, this simply confirms what had been reported earlier. The Deng trade and then the close management of the team's roster cinched the avoidance of the LT for the 2013-14 season.

    Bulls fans should be glad that the team avoided the LT this past season. Paying the tax this season would have been a waste and could have subjected the team to the "repeater tax" in a future season (s).

    As for anyone who views the Bulls' avoidance of the LT this season as reason to flog Bulls' ownership, they either don't get it or their agenda relies on others not getting it.
     
  3. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Profits. Big foam finger #1.

    What else is there to care about?
     
  4. TomBoerwinkle#1

    TomBoerwinkle#1 Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Ding Ding Ding! We have a flogger! Woot!
     
  5. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Our guys are too good. Dial back on the talent so we don't have to pay the tax!

    Transplant is right though. What's the point in paying the tax if you have no intention of trying to win it all.

    Lightning might strike again and we get a second unicorn on rookie scale contract.
     
  6. TomBoerwinkle#1

    TomBoerwinkle#1 Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    That is not really what Transplant said at all at least as I read it.

    But whatever.
     
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    This season. It would have been a waste. Avoid the LT this season. Careful basketball decisions to avoid the tax.

    I said, good thing they traded Lu We were much better off with the downgrade at SF. Our guys are too good, dial back on the talent.

    Seen this movie before. Spoiler: Bulls made the playoffs. As Boozer said in Rose's MVP season, "mission accomplished." To quote Pax, roughly, "the goal is playoffs."

    Sorry, but I do disagree with Transplant sometimes. I get Bulls management. It's not an either/or proposition. The proof is in the avoidance of the LT and the avoidance of contending for championships. They go hand in hand.
     
  8. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    If you want to understand the Bulls LT situation for the 2013-14 season, understand this:

    - They entered the season as a team that was expected to contend for the championship and as a lock to pay the LT with salaries of around $78mil (LT at $71.7mil).

    - Derrick Rose tore his meniscus on November 22.

    - Rose decided to have the surgery with the longer recovery time but fewer long-term issues and was declared out for the season.

    - In the eyes of Bulls management, most fans and members of the media, Rose's injury changed the Bulls from a contender to a borderline playoff team. Despite the starkly changed competitive outlook for the team, paying the LT for the 2013-14 season appeared to be unavoidable. This would mean paying the LT for two consecutive seasons in which the team was not a contender for the title.

    - On January 7, the Cleveland Cavaliers agreed to trade Andrew Bynum (and future picks) for Luol Deng. The key to this deal was that Bynum's contract was not guaranteed beyond January 7 and the Bulls immediately released him. It was a "get out of jail free card" for the Bulls insofar as the 2013-14 LT was concerned so long as they carefully managed their spending the remainder of season. As TB#1 explained above, they were successful in this management.
     
  9. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    So if the Bulls were still $10M over the LT after losing Lu , do you think they'd have done a salary dump with Noah ? I do.
     
  10. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I fully appreciate the tax repeater ramifications. I agree with you that given the Bulls weren't going to add Hawes and other talent that went to contenders, avoiding repeater status is a good idea.
     
  11. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Hardly a surprise.

    Why didn't they dump to avoid the LT in 2012-13?
     
  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    You didn't answer the question. About Noah.
     
  13. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Sorry, I thought you just used the question as a way to express your opinion.

    No, of course the Bulls wouldn't have done a salary dump with Noah. Noah's on a reasonable contract and is signed for 3 more seasons.

    Your turn. If you believe the Bulls would do something as extreme as salary-dumping Noah to avoid the LT, why didn't the Bulls do something to avoid the LT in 2012-13?
     
  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I think Gar convinced the Chairman to pay the tax. Perhaps they thought Rose would return for the playoffs.

    Kirk has photos of Pax in a compromising position.

    Oh yeah, they tried to find a taker for Rip, but no luck. Got stuck.
     
  15. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

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    With the results of this season in the rearview mirror it's now plain as day that the team was going nowhere towards its goal of winning a championship. With the luxury tax looming and Luol Deng's FA imminent Gar Forman and John Paxson made the bold decision to move the team in a new direction. A direction with more flexibility and grounded in fiscal sanity.

    Rather than risk dipping into the repeater tax in a year they might be contending, GarPax prudently steared the ship in a new direction by letting Luol Deng go for monetary considerations and giving the team the breathing room essential for re-tooling around a healed Derrick Rose.

    Such financial courage and business acumen is a rarity in the business of sports these days.
     
  16. TomBoerwinkle#1

    TomBoerwinkle#1 Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Prudent. Yes. That is a good way of putting it. It isn't the pipe dream of drafting/trading/aquiring a 12 deep roster of the next 100 Greatest list at any 40000x the luxury tax, if that is even possible and its not a Scrooge McDuck torpedo the team to make an extra $20 short term profit foil hat near umbrella man on the grassy knoll cluster-conspiracy.

    Rose went down. There was no l long term solution that would justify deep sixing the team for an unlikely contention scenario move. Any Deng Boo move past or Booz move future is a rational move to a contender. Prudent. We have options. Maybe we score maybe not but options are better than non options when it comes to 2nd tier players. Deng and Boozer (1st tier 2 years ago maybe 1) Rose and Noah 1st tier, Gibson and Butler somewhere between tiers.
     
  17. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    Didn't they try and trade Rip but could not find anyone to take him without giving up a 1st round pick?
     
  18. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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  19. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    The Bulls don't want to pay the tax. Period. The one time they did pay it is because they could not complete a last minute trade that wasn't a gang rape and then they only paid a bit.

    Other large market teams and many mid market teams pay the tax since they have the revenues / profits to do so and choose to do so. The Bulls on the other hand don't. That's how they operate their business.

    That can be called cheap from a fan's perspective. If the Lakers, Knicks, Mavs, Celtics and Heat can pay it, why don't the Bulls who are one of the most valuable teams in the league?

    Some consider it a prudent move the Bulls part. A wise business decision.

    The Bulls are a large market / high revenue team that operates like one of the little / cheap guys, at least from a luxury tax standpoint. All the more reason to not enter into bad contracts, which the Bulls have a terrible habit of doing. Every dollar counts in this ownership environment.
     
  20. TomBoerwinkle#1

    TomBoerwinkle#1 Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Ok. Other teams have paid LT. Some teams have paid it a lot. What is the payout? How many teams paying tax not winning championships vs winning? Maybe fans feel vindication if a team spends for a team that still doesn't get a ring? I never got that.

    I do think the Bulls went through a period where they sucked do bad they got themselves paid because no eay in hell they were going to contend, due to unreasonable player and coach demands to overpay for a dynasty gasping and at its end, Jay Williams and some piss poor drafts and they did suck profits when they could not win. I think that era is long past.

    In any event, dollars spent doesn't equal rings. Ask Joe Dolan.

    This is, IMO, an era of Bulls Win, hampered mostly by back to back Rose injuries. We were held back previously by Deng injuries but he was never the make or break player Rose is.
     

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