Biggest take away is whether it is Staal or Thornton or other, something will happen here. We are looking to upgrade at forward, which is a must IMO.
For the record Staal will be 30 in late October, so he is essentially 30 and will play 95% of the season at 30. He also didn't have a great season by his standards this past season. 21 goals and 61 points, which is still very solid, but below his usual standards. With that being said, I would still deal for him for sure. Two years left with a cap hit of 8.25 is not awful either. He would be by far choice A. I would put Thornton a distant choice B, and only for the right package.
I like E. Staal idea here a lot. That would be great addition. He seems like he needs a change of scenery for sure. Carolina has not made the playoffs in forever so it makes sense for them to look for a big trade to shake things up. I think Carolina would like Miller included in the package in place of fast. Talbot, Brassard, Miller and/or a 3rd, Klein for E. Staal Good, fair deal for both sides.
I don't think we'd have to give up Miller and Brassard and Talbot and Klein for Staal. I would offer Fast AND a 3rd if I had to before I included Miller. I just get the feeling that Miller won't be moved hearing AV and Sather talk about him. And I would be surprised if we dealt Miller and Brassard in a package. Right now that is our # 2 and # 3 C's. I think we would keep Miller if we dealt Brassard.
This is exactly why we don't win and why we won't win until Sather is gone. Why would we get Joe Thorton? Another guy who has done absolutely nothing in the playoffs. Together with Nash they will cost over 14M, both are complete crap in the playoffs. Without Brassard's line we would never even make the playoffs last year, not to mention the fact that line carried us in the playoffs with a timely play or a goal. Why? Why would we give up him for an old Thorton? Why would we give up Stall? Finally we have a stable defense. All know their role and playing well. I understand that neither Stepan nor Brassard are 1st line centers but we need to roll with it and see what happens. Promote from within. Take a chance on someone.
Okay, so your vote is to re-sign Staal for 5 or 6 years and 5.5 mill or more per (meaning McD, Girardi, Staal, and Klein are all signed for 4 or more seasons). AND let Brassard be our # 2 C scoring 45 or so points, maybe close to 50 if we are lucky, making 4.5 or a touch more per. Then let unproven and totally unknown not high level prospects Lindberg (never played an NHL game) or Miller (solid prospect but not a top prospect and never really played C in the NHL) be our # 3 C. Okay, votes counted for 2009. Maybe that will all work out...who knows, but forget playing a kid on D if that is the case with Boyle and Moore also signed for at least the next two years (who knows if Moore gets 2 or more years...2 is the minimum).
I get your overall point is let it be and keep the team together, but the issue is that cannot happen. Richards is gone. Pouliot is gone. Dorsett is gone. Boyle is gone. Stralman is gone in favor of D. Boyle. So changes happen with a tight cap and RFA's who want to get paid. And moving Brassard up to a # 2 C is risky. Counting on young kids who are not top prospects to C the 3rd line is risky. You have to adapt and move forward or you die. Now no shot I deal Stepan for Thornton, but if I had to deal Brassard and Fast and a pick I would. Or if I had to deal Staal, and Fast, and a pick I would (this is under the assumption that we won't re-sign Staal long term). It is very risky to me to re-sign Staal long term, I can see doing it, but it is risky. I think we all agree the best option is to make a strong play for E. Staal if he is really available.
First, I do not want Joe Thorton. Another old guy who will come here to do nothing. I don't want him here at all. We really do not need Klien as a 3rd defensive pair. 3M per year salary hit is too much, instead get a kid who makes less than 1M per year to play with John Moore and yes resign Stall. 3M from Klien plus 1.5 M of cap space that we have should be enough to sign Brassard type of C who would be better than Richards.
So deal Klein away for a pick and play a kid? And who is the C you are signing to go along with Brassard and Stepan? And that also means you are on board with re-signing Staal for 5 or 6 years at 5.5 mill per give or take? Again, you cannot just live in a vacuum when you look at moves, you need to look at the full big picture. I am not saying get Thornton or don't get Thornton, frankly I could go either way depending on the package AND he has a full NTC and still says he wants to stay in SJ period, but you need to look at the whole team and how every move affects each player. Not dealing Staal this summer pretty much means we will re-sign him long term I believe, Staal said he doesn't want to go into this season with no deal in place, so make sure you factor that in since he is a UFA next summer.
I would sign Staal and look to trade Girardi. I'd much rather have Staal at 5-6 more years than Danny Boy. Wonder if Carolina would take Girardi and Talbot plus a Fast type prospect for Staal. Doubt it.
I want Eric Staal bad Girardi has a NTC. He just worked hard to get the big deal to stay in NY. He is not going to go to redneck Carolina
NTC is something that needs to be removed from the game. Or modified so if a player asks for a trade they lose their right to handcuff the organization.
Chuck, I am saying if we get rid of Klien's 3M cap hit that leaves us with 2M free + 1.5 or 2M cap space. I am saying sign a 4M center for second line or 3rd line, whatever line and roll with Stepan, Brassard and 4M center and Dom Moore. Defense will be solid with Stall in it.
Yes sc, we know you hate Girardi. That has been made clear with just about everyone of your posts. Who is that 4 mill C we sign 2009? Throw out the UFA we can sign now that would cover us? And we are not spending every cent up to the cap. Teams always leave some room for a callup or trade DL deals, so I do not think we have 4 mill to spend on a UFA C. And you forgot to mention Staal and his new 5 or 6 year deal with 5.5 or so per 2009. Throw that in there as well if you decide not to deal Staal this summer. That is cool, but just know that is what you are saying bro.
Stall has a contract this year at 3.3M I believe, well he is under the cap for this year. Next year the cap might go up and then we can use that money to pay for Stall's extension and if the cap does not go up you deal with that next year. Many teams today are over the cap. I don't know who we get for 3M +, maybe a trade. There are 690 players in this league, so I am sure we can find someone. Girardi, McD and Stall is a great 3 Ds for a 5 years. Later John Moorre could be 4th D and let our kids develop in 5th and 6th spots. Brassard was our best C last year and Zuk was our best winger. Nash was crap, let's not bring another no show in the playoofs here. Stall is young defensman with lot's of experience. Very few players in the league have that type of a player, why would we trade for a 35 year old guy? I don't get this.
We should trade Nash IMO. He has done nothing in the playoffs, nothing. Let's trade him in the middle of the season for 3 great players and a pick. If he is point per game guy next season after 25 games, then find him a home. We can trade him for some good tough depth that we lost this year. This team could be better than last year if we could ask Nash to move his NTC.
Okay, but Staal said he wants to have a deal done by the start of the season. So my guess is if we don't trade him this summer we will re-sign him. And now you want to trade for a C making 3 mill + AND deal Nash after the season starts, asking him to waive his NTC. You kind of proved my point. It is very easy to sit here and say sign a C for 4 mill per. Trade Klein. Keep Staal. Ask Nash to waive his NTC and deal him after the season starts. It is pretty easy to sit here and throw out all these plans, but it doesn't work like that in real life, things aren't done in a vacuum.
