Now that the Heat superteam is broken up, one would think Rose - Butler - Deng - Gibson - Noah Bulls would be the favorites out of the East. This new group? I'm still trying to get my head around what is going on here. Reeks of desperation, IMO.
So many people said the Bulls' 3/30 offer was a joke, an insult, a non-offer that they knew he wouldn't accept... So that makes 2/20 33% funnier, 33% more insulting, 33% less than a non-offer? Me thinks Senor Deng may have overestimated his value this summer, maybe he should have spent more time working on his 3-pt shot and less time laughing at the Bulls offer?
Looks like around 10 million a year is about what the market is going to value Deng at. If that is what he gets on a multi year deal, I guess there was no real harm in Deng trying to get more. Worth the risk on his end, although he didn't hit the jackpot. Its a shame that the Bulls could not fill the large void left at the 3 (or 2 if Jimmy is the 3), especially since the Bulls should be in "win now" mode (Rose, Gasol, Gibson, Noah) and the East is wide open. Losing a 2 time all-star in his prime is never a good thing, especially when its a position of need and his development curve matches where the overall team is at. Likely worth a couple extra million. Now the Bulls are stuck trying to win a NBA title with unproven rookies and vet min guys at key positions.
I loved Deng (well, his game, I never met him) as much as anyone, but we really can't play him and Butler together because neither of them are good enough from behind the arc. GarPax probably would have offered him a few million a year more if he could hit 3's. That's why I really like Snell, he's got the build and speed to be an outstanding defender, and he can handle the rock as good as Deng ever could. Plus, he's obviously a better 3-point shooter than Deng. I thought Deng had turned it around, when he shot .367 in 2012. But the last two seasons he's back to .322 and .302, and that's just not good enough to spread the floor for Rose the way we need it.
Perhaps, but Snell is a long way away from being even close to the player that Luol Deng is. Snell showed promise from deep, but that aspect of his game seemingly disappeared towards the end of last season (march especially), as did his minutes from Thibs. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/5190/splits/ I remember pondering at length as to what happened to Tony Snell's 3 point stroke. It would be really, really great if Snell took a huge leap forward. Based on his production last year, he's not really close to being there yet. Looking at his body type and skill set, the potential is there. Once again, the Bulls players are not on the same page development curve wise. Snell is 1-3 years off, if he ever gets there McDermott, if he sticks in the NBA in a meaningful capacity, will likely need 2-3 years. The strength of the Bulls is Rose (if healthy) and Gasol-Noah-Gibson, which is a "win now" core. Of course, the way the Bulls operate IMO, I'm sure one of those two youngsters is slated to be a potential Jimmy Butler replacement. We lost Deng and didn't replace him with a guy that can fill the void in the next 1-2 seasons. It would be great if Snell can be a Deng type player that can hit threes. That would be quite a step forward from what he gave us last season.
I don't know how much cap space Miami has, it's really irrelevant to my point. I just know that if Deng signs for $10 million a year, it can't be argued that the Bulls lowballed him. Well I guess it could be argued, it a person wants to not just move the goalposts but actually tear them down and replace them with a hockey net...
How can we say two teams low-balled him until Dallas signs him to $12M+? Cart before the horse? Most certainly. We can't say that the Bulls didn't try to overpay him until someone signs him for more than $9 million for 3 years, right? We can deal in the "what-ifs" IF Dallas signs him. They might. All we know right now for a FACT is that the Heat ARE, in REALITY, offering him 33% less guaranteed money than the Bulls did.
Slight low ball, accurate value or slight overvalue, the Bulls are worse off from a winning the NBA title this year perspective now that he's gone. If the Bulls gave him 10-12 mil per year, we're only talking about a slight overvaluation, if at all. Given that the team is in (or should be in) "win now" mode given the age of the key guys on the roster and the lack of viable alternatives, its likely a price worth paying.
Eh . . . I don't think I can fully agree with this. I think Deng's play in Cleveland spooked a sizable number of GMs. If Deng had finished the season with the Bulls how he was playing when he was traded, 19.0 ppg, .452 fg%, .536 ts%, he would have gotten another allstar nomination and he would have gone into this off season as the highest profile possible acquisition behind LeBron and Melo. Instead, his play was abysmal in Cleveland . . . like a big flashing neon *don't touch this*: 15.2 ppg, .417 fg%, .503 ts%. He proved in the span of 6 or whatever months to all the desperate GMs that he wasn't the type of player who could fix the chemistry on a broken team. Parsons came in at 3-years, $46M. I think Deng was set to field a better offer than that. So I don't think you have grounds to argue with people who think Chicago low balled Deng. Their offer was inconsistent with his market value at the time they made their offer. I think you can make the slightly different argument that Chicago's offer was consistent with Deng's actual value, not his market value. Although, I get the feeling that Deng is probably going to be a strong value add if he does sign at 9M or whatever per a season.
Agree completely. Whose your small forward? I feel like this thread intertwines with my sentiments about the first preseason game. Maybe Bullsville is right and I came down to harsh on Dougie McRomney -- he really does look like a young Mitt Romney. But the Bulls did this. They've been setting out a trail of breadcrumbs that leads to Dunleavy being moved and McDermott beginning the season as the starting small forward. That isn't a possibility. He's a long, long way away from that. And his plan to fix social security sucks balls. So who is it then? All the other strong acquisitions besides Deng are off the market. The Bulls just spent their cap space on a 34 year old who plays at a position where they may already have two starting-caliber players. Maybe the Bulls should have gone back and tried to make Deng another offer? This all absolutely reeks of desperation. The Bulls went out and signed the biggest *name* left on the market. They needed to eat a slice of humble pie, admit that McDermott isn't the second coming, and go out and address the team's weaknesses. Instead they went into CYA mode.
I have no idea. Maybe Butler, but then who is the 2? Maybe Snell or McDermott will be better this upcoming year than expected. The knock on McDermott is his handle, size and if he can get his shot off in the NBA. That concerns me. Is Thibs going to like his D? Likely no. But, I don't watch a lot of college ball so I'll reserve judgement until I see him in NBA games. Banking on rookies is usually not a great idea. Yah, the Gasol signing is strange. I'm not sure if it was in some way an attempt to lure Melo. Perhaps insurance for not signing Noah in a year or two if he wants the MAX (always have to consider this w/ the Bulls)? Best remaining player available? Its going to be a strange year. And dear Lord if Rose isn't his old self, its going to be a clusterfuck. I still don't see the Bulls having done anything to address what gets them bounced out of the playoffs and that is guys that can create and score. Dougie seems more like he'll be a knock down shooter perhaps, but not a dynamic shot creator. But, that remains to be seen. It will be cool to see Gasol as a Bull finally, but I just don't see losing Boozer and Deng and replacing that with Gasol and unproven guys gets you closer to winning the title. But, perhaps the contract for Gasol won't be too gaudy and they will hope from internal development from Butler, Snell, McDermott, Mirotic and go from there. Keeping Deng and getting PP would be an option I could be more comfortable with, as it would have been a more balanced lineup and given the team some scoring punch.
My feeling is that when you have to look to internal development you're likely in trouble. Non rookies never seem to follow the timeline for getting better that you'd expect. It's always some strange mix of players getting better, who you expected to get worse, and players getting worse, who you expected to get better. I did think Snell's release looked a little different yesterday. I don't think it's the insurance-Noah idea. Gasol is going to be 36 in two seasons. That's really pushing it. Another possibility is that the Bulls took the loss to the Wizards last season harder than they should have. I can see GarPaxThibs looking to sign Hinrich over DJ because DJ got pushed around by the Wizard's big guards, and Pau because Noah was worn down by the time he played NeNe.
If a team that already has the easy-offense scorers they need and has an opening at SF, Deng's a bargain at $10mil. He's a coach's dream. Having been unsuccessful in their pursuit of Anthony, the Bulls now have a hole at one wing (Butler manning the other). Dunleavy is very capable and a better shooter and more efficient scorer than Deng, but he can't play defense or run the floor like Deng, nor does he have Deng's offensive versatility. Snell and McDermott are also candidates, but as has been pointed out, contenders shouldn't need to rely on unproven players filling key roles. Of course, the offseason's not over yet.
I'm not sure I'd refer to "starting SF who is the worst starter on the team and probably won't even play 24 minutes per game" is a key role, though. Rose, Butler, Noah, Gasol and Gibson will be the 5 players who play the most minutes on this team. I would imagine that Rose takes about 18 shots a game, Gasol 14, Gibson 10, Noah 8, Butler 8... that's 58 shots right there, the team under Thibs averages right at 81 a game. Whoever plays SF needs to defend well and knock down open 3's, and not much more. If we had kept Deng, we wouldn't have Gasol. I'd make that trade 100 times out of 100 for this team. Gasol is an actual threat who demands a double team in the low post. Even the last two years, playing on crap Laker teams, Gasol is just as good from 10-22 feet as Deng. Hell, he's 29% on 3's the last two years, Deng only 31%. If Butler only has to take 8 shots a game, and he's playing off Rose and Gasol, I bet he's back to the 38% 3pt shooter he was in 2013. We know Dunleavy can shoot, and so can McDermott- yes he's a rookie, but it's not like championship teams can't have a rookie being 8th or 9th on the team in minutes. And, as transplant pointed out, the offseason isn't over yet. GarPax have proven to be pretty damn good at finding one impact player a year that wound up helping the team at the minimum salary since Thibs has been here (DJ, Nate, Lucas III, Kurt). The team got better last season after Deng got traded, and that was with Dunleavy and Snell taking most of those minutes. Snell and Butler are young players, they'll be better this season. I was a big Deng fan, wanted him to sign an extension, and didn't want to trade him. But getting Gasol with the money we saved is a step up in the big picture, no doubt in my mind.
Deng took a lot of the hardest shot in basketball. If moneyball tells you don't bunt in baseball, it tells you don't take long range 2pt shots in basketball. So removing the guy taking lots of long range 2pt shots from the equation did make us better. The exception is if you have a guy taking long range 2pt shots who gets fouled a lot or who makes over 50% of those. Without his defense, we still managed to hold the Wizards to 75 in game 5. Not sure we'd have scored any more than 69 though.
