Well Kobe's biggest flaw in the past was his passing. lol Dirk is 7 feet and can see over players so it is easier for him to find the open player and he isn't as turnover prone. Kobe gets the ball more though.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Dec 7 2006, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well Kobe's biggest flaw in the past was his passing. lol Dirk is 7 feet and can see over players so it is easier for him to find the open player and he isn't as turnover prone. Kobe gets the ball more though.</div>No, kobe was a great passer in the 3 peat days. Then he had to change his role and now he is back to his old role.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Dec 7 2006, 03:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No, kobe was a great passer in the 3 peat days. Then he had to change his role and now he is back to his old role.</div>It's hard to miss a 7'2 beast.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Dec 6 2006, 10:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's hard to miss a 7'2 beast. </div>HAHAHAHA!!!!But seriously I have to agree, at least so far this season I've been impressed by Kobe's willingness to share.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Dec 6 2006, 10:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Oh well, you haven't been around enough to see the stuff the guy says. He knows I'm joking too, he is just a big homer and homers come off as being stupid.Nowehere did I say wade wasn't explosive or wasn't close to mj's explosiveness. Just that I don't believe he isn't more explosive. I also don't recall saying Kobe was more explosive and was the better attacker than wade. Kobe's game isn't based around attacking and getting fouls. He is much more complete than that. I guarentee you if wade had a great jumpshot he'd balance his game out like kobe is doing this season.Also, I don't recall wade and lebron being doubled off the ball. Care to explain to me where that has happened? Wade is feeling what kobe felt last season.</div>I have not seen Wade or Lebron guarded like that, or any other perimeter player in the league you are right. I didn't watch all of Kobe's games last year, I only watched the Lakers play about 6 or 7 times, but I seriously doubt Kobe was guarded like that. If so, tell me what games he was guarded like that. A big reason why I doubt that, is because they would have to be a really dumb coach to double team a guard, before he has the ball. You can double team a big man that doesn't move far from the basket like that, but there is no way you could get away with guarding a perimeter player like that. Reason being, is becaues perimeter players go into motion more than big men do, Kobe is no different. That puts two players are chasing one around the wing before he has the ball, and only paying attention to that wing. That means one player is running around not even being paid attention to, that will never work. If me, some smo in the army knows that, I would imagine every coach in the NBA knows that. So I seriously am doubting that coach's went into the game, with the strategy to double team Kobe Bryant before he has the ball. I seriously doubt, that they doubled him without the ball, for even two possessions in a row.I think that Wade is just as explosive as Jordan was, maybe even a little more explosive. I think he has more speed than Jordan had, and again he was the same type of player. I am in no way saying he would be better than Jordan, I am just saying he would not be just an average player in those days, even with handchecks.
Lmao at you saying Wade is a slightly faster than Jordan. That is so far off. No one had a quicker first step than Jordan.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Dec 7 2006, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lmao at you saying Wade is a slightly faster than Jordan. That is so far off. No one had a quicker first step than Jordan.</div>Wow Mavsfan, that was a great post, you really said something there. I can name a few players with quicker first steps than Jordan. Iverson has had maybe the quickest first step in NBA history, and was definately faster than Jordan was. Wade's is just as fast, if not faster. Thats not far off at all, that's watching basketball, and knowing what I have seen.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Dec 7 2006, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wow Mavsfan, that was a great post, you really said something there. I can name a few players with quicker first steps than Jordan. Iverson has had maybe the quickest first step in NBA history, and was definately faster than Jordan was. Wade's is just as fast, if not faster. Thats not far off at all, that's watching basketball, and knowing what I have seen.</div>I've watched them also. Maybe they can beat Jordan in a full court sprint but not in a 5 yard sprint. Jordan has better reaction time. It depends on the distance of the sprint on who's faster and the distance Jordan does is more important. That is if we are talking about Jordan in his prime.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Dec 7 2006, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I've watched them also. Maybe they can beat Jordan in a full court sprint but not in a 5 yard sprint. Jordan has better reaction time. It depends on the distance of the sprint on who's faster and the distance Jordan does is more important. That is if we are talking about Jordan in his prime.</div>I'm talking about Jordan when he was most athletic, and that was his first few years in the league. Wade and Iverson are just as fast, and just as quick as Jordan was. Iverson has the quickest initial burst of anyone I have ever seen, and Wade is right there with Jordan when I watched them both explode.
Well I guess where Jordan has the advantage is he finishes better because of his height. I don't know how you can tell which burst is faster since all 3 are lightning fast.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Dec 7 2006, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well I guess where Jordan has the advantage is he finishes better because of his height. I don't know how you can tell which burst is faster since all 3 are lightning fast.</div>I will give you that, becaue of height and wing span, Jordan had an easier time finishing around the basket, and was better at finishing. I was not debating that, I just think as far as pure god given athletic ability Wade had the same athletic ability, as Jordan had, and maybe just a bit more. I was also saying that Wade had the same type of game that Jordan had early in his career, before he balanced things out and developed that jump shot. They both had that tough, attack the basket style of play. The only reason why I even said that, was because Melo brought up some point about Jordan saying that Wade would be average in Jordan's time, and I was saying that I don't think Wade would be just average in that time.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Dec 8 2006, 05:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I have not seen Wade or Lebron guarded like that, or any other perimeter player in the league you are right. I didn't watch all of Kobe's games last year, I only watched the Lakers play about 6 or 7 times, but I seriously doubt Kobe was guarded like that. If so, tell me what games he was guarded like that. A big reason why I doubt that, is because they would have to be a really dumb coach to double team a guard, before he has the ball. You can double team a big man that doesn't move far from the basket like that, but there is no way you could get away with guarding a perimeter player like that. Reason being, is becaues perimeter players go into motion more than big men do, Kobe is no different. That puts two players are chasing one around the wing before he has the ball, and only paying attention to that wing. That means one player is running around not even being paid attention to, that will never work. If me, some smo in the army knows that, I would imagine every coach in the NBA knows that. So I seriously am doubting that coach's went into the game, with the strategy to double team Kobe Bryant before he has the ball. I seriously doubt, that they doubled him without the ball, for even two possessions in a row.I think that Wade is just as explosive as Jordan was, maybe even a little more explosive. I think he has more speed than Jordan had, and again he was the same type of player. I am in no way saying he would be better than Jordan, I am just saying he would not be just an average player in those days, even with handchecks.</div>Download any game between mid january to early february. Their evident in those games. Also, in one games the nuggets refused to let kobe get the ball. I remember patterson grabbed kobe so he couldn't get away from him. Obviously it wasn't consistent but it was happening. I don't believe he is as explosive as mj. My eyes clearly tell me something else. Again, young mj might be the most explosive player of all time. Iverson might tip but not wade.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Dec 7 2006, 05:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Download any game between mid january to early february. Their evident in those games. Also, in one games the nuggets refused to let kobe get the ball. I remember patterson grabbed kobe so he couldn't get away from him. Obviously it wasn't consistent but it was happening. I don't believe he is as explosive as mj. My eyes clearly tell me something else. Again, young mj might be the most explosive player of all time. Iverson might tip but not wade.</div>You have watched maybe five minute clips of Jordan playing, I know you don't know anything about MJ playing. You can not believe it as much as you want, the fact is, anyone that got to watch those games growing up and watched them alot knows that D-Wade is just as explosive as MJ.I watched a couple of games between mid January and early February and in none of those games did I see him getting double teamed before he got the ball. Dallas did not double team him before he got the ball, Detroit didn't, and Miami didn't guard him like that. They might have had the person guarding him trying to deny him the ball, that's nothing different than anyone else does against a perimeter offensive stud. Seriously, go back to my last post for reasoning, you would be an idiot to double team a guard before he gets the ball. Anyone that has played basketball before knows that is not something you do, I don't care who you are playing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Dec 8 2006, 09:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You have watched maybe five minute clips of Jordan playing, I know you don't know anything about MJ playing. You can not believe it as much as you want, the fact is, anyone that got to watch those games growing up and watched them alot knows that D-Wade is just as explosive as MJ.I watched a couple of games between mid January and early February and in none of those games did I see him getting double teamed before he got the ball. Dallas did not double team him before he got the ball, Detroit didn't, and Miami didn't guard him like that. They might have had the person guarding him trying to deny him the ball, that's nothing different than anyone else does against a perimeter offensive stud. Seriously, go back to my last post for reasoning, you would be an idiot to double team a guard before he gets the ball. Anyone that has played basketball before knows that is not something you do, I don't care who you are playing.</div>I'm not talking about mj's game. Just his explosion. 5 minute clips is enough to see a players' explosion. and first step.Again, there was no point in doubling kobe when he played against miami/detroit and the dallas. 2 of those teams have guys who can guard kobe on on one. Also, look at these two paticular games where I remember kobe being doubled off the ball. Download games against the bobcats and hornets. Against your reasoning means nothing because it's all assumption.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Dec 7 2006, 06:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not talking about mj's game. Just his explosion. 5 minute clips is enough to see a players' explosion. and first step.Again, there was no point in doubling kobe when he played against miami/detroit and the dallas. 2 of those teams have guys who can guard kobe on on one. Also, look at these two paticular games where I remember kobe being doubled off the ball. Download games against the bobcats and hornets. Against your reasoning means nothing because it's all assumption.</div>What is the sight you downloaded those games from? I will go watch those two games, but I am going to tell you right now that the Hornets gave up 26 shots to Kobe Bryant that game, on way to scoring 35 points and if he was being double teamed before he got the ball, then he would not have received the ball as much more than likely. To add on to that, First you said that any game between mid january and early february, then I mentioned three games in that time frame and now you are switching your story. Furthermore obviously, Dallas has no one that can guard Kobe one on one, because he lit them up for 62 points in a game earlier that season, which by the way I watched that game also. So for your argument to hold any ground, you need to be consistent in what you say.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Dec 8 2006, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What is the sight you downloaded those games from? I will go watch those two games, but I am going to tell you right now that the Hornets gave up 26 shots to Kobe Bryant that game, on way to scoring 35 points and if he was being double teamed before he got the ball, then he would not have received the ball as much more than likely. To add on to that, First you said that any game between mid january and early february, then I mentioned three games in that time frame and now you are switching your story. Furthermore obviously, Dallas has no one that can guard Kobe one on one, because he lit them up for 62 points in a game earlier that season, which by the way I watched that game also. So for your argument to hold any ground, you need to be consistent in what you say.</div>I don't usually download games, I watch all the games so yeh.2nd, all you are doing assuming. All assumption. Atleast with the mj thing, you have watched it but here there is no substance because you said yourself you're looking at a box score for information.Also, I wasnt' switching or being inconsistent. It's called a mere play on the words. When I say any, it doesn't mean every single game. More like majority of it. I always say Kobe shows up for every single game even though some games he doesn't. Just a mere play on the words, not being inconsistent.Also, did you the game against the nuggets in april when the nuggets started refusing kobe the ball. Patterson started grabbing him and someone else denied the ball getting to him. That game was nationally televised, you must of saw it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Dec 7 2006, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't usually download games, I watch all the games so yeh.2nd, all you are doing assuming. All assumption. Atleast with the mj thing, you have watched it but here there is no substance because you said yourself you're looking at a box score for information.Also, I wasnt' switching or being inconsistent. It's called a mere play on the words. When I say any, it doesn't mean every single game. More like majority of it. I always say Kobe shows up for every single game even though some games he doesn't. Just a mere play on the words, not being inconsistent.Also, did you the game against the nuggets in april when the nuggets started refusing kobe the ball. Patterson started grabbing him and someone else denied the ball getting to him. That game was nationally televised, you must of saw it.</div>First off, why would you tell me to download games, if you don't even have a sight to download the games from.I am assuming on that first one, because I didn't get to watch the game, I am going on pure box score there. It just seems odd that if your trying to deny someone the ball, by constantly double teaming him before he gets the ball, that they get atleast 26 touches. I'm just going on what I know about basketball there, your right, I didn't see the game.You was switching your argument, because first you said that watch any game. When someone says "watch any game," that means all games played. In which case, I showed three games I watched during that span that it did not happen. I did watch that game, and that happened for one or two possesions. They started doing that towards the end of that game, it wasn't working. Kobe got alot of touches through out that game, they only did that towards the end of the game when they was desperate to try to stop Kobe from killing them.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Dec 8 2006, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>First off, why would you tell me to download games, if you don't even have a sight to download the games from.I am assuming on that first one, because I didn't get to watch the game, I am going on pure box score there. It just seems odd that if your trying to deny someone the ball, by constantly double teaming him before he gets the ball, that they get atleast 26 touches. I'm just going on what I know about basketball there, your right, I didn't see the game.You was switching your argument, because first you said that watch any game. When someone says "watch any game," that means all games played. In which case, I showed three games I watched during that span that it did not happen. I did watch that game, and that happened for one or two possesions. They started doing that towards the end of that game, it wasn't working. Kobe got alot of touches through out that game, they only did that towards the end of the game when they was desperate to try to stop Kobe from killing them.</div>Oh well, I'm guessing you would know. Mixmakers has a lot of games.Also, no-where did I say Kobe was consistently doubled off the ball. I don't remember it. What I said is this<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Also, I don't recall wade and lebron being doubled off the ball.</div>I never ever recall Wade or lebron being doubled off the ball last season. Wade also can't be doubled off the ball this season because he has been running the point himself. Kobe during the season at times had been doubled off the ball. I'm still waiting for you to explain to me if lebron ever faced defense like it.I usually don't like assuming. I honestly only watched the nationally televised games of the heat and cavs. Have you watched extra games? if so, what types of defenses do they face?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Dec 7 2006, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Oh well, I'm guessing you would know. Mixmakers has a lot of games.Also, no-where did I say Kobe was consistently doubled off the ball. I don't remember it. What I said is thisI never ever recall Wade or lebron being doubled off the ball last season. Wade also can't be doubled off the ball this season because he has been running the point himself. Kobe during the season at times had been doubled off the ball. I'm still waiting for you to explain to me if lebron ever faced defense like it.I usually don't like assuming. I honestly only watched the nationally televised games of the heat and cavs. Have you watched extra games? if so, what types of defenses do they face?</div>Come on now Melo, I like you, but you can't go changing what you say. At first you was making a point to say that Kobe was doubled off the ball, and even made a point to say that he was being doubled without the ball any time between mid January, and early February of last season. Now your back tracking and saying that you never said he was consistently being doubled off the ball. Furthermore, I have already said in post 65 that I never saw D-Wade or Lebron James doubled before they get the ball. I even said that I have never seen Kobe Bryant double teamed like that before. Apparently the games I watch, they all realize what I know, it's retarded to do that and how you loose games. Especially to try to double team Wade like that would be stupid, he's so fast he might leave both defenders behind him, and get the ball, then he is open with the ball and some one else on the court will be open.I have nba league pass, so I have got to watch a couple of extra games. Dwayne Wade does not really get double teamed until he crosses over the three point line with that, that's when teams send two people to try to trap him usually. It doesn't happen every play, but he gets double teamed consistently through out the night. As they try to trap him, they usually try to shade a big somwhere near there so they can try to rotate to get to Wade. Lebron James faces pretty much the same type of double teams, but because he is not as fast with Wade he doesn't cut between the double teams as much. Usually the Cavaliers try to send someone real quickly to set a pick for Lebron James before the double team can happen.As for the D-Wade can't be double teamed off the ball becaue he runs point, is not one of the brightest things I have ever read. Wade does not just come down the court, and dribble the ball the entire time for the Heat, no point in the league does that. He passes the ball when he gets down court, sets up the offense, and goes in motion.
Ah I deff gotta go with Kobe he shown for years what he does. Wade is great also, but let him show his stuff for a few years more.
