Who do you think is the most overrated player? In that the player gets mentioned a lot despite not being that great at what they are hyping him to be.
Right now I'd have to say that Ben Wallace is probably the most overrated player in the NBA. I loved what he did for the Pistons and the NBA in Detroit, he was fun to watch. For those few seasons he put up some great rebound and block numbers...and those numbers and his big bruiser image unfortunatley led to him winning some DPY awards that he didn't deserve. Because of those awards he will probably be elected into the HOF and future fans will call him one of the best defenders in NBA history and it's ridiculous. When you look past the braun and the image and numbers he was no more than a 'good' defender. From what I've read from players over the last few years Rasheed Wallace was the real defensive menace for the Pistons. Don't get me wrong, Wallace was a good defender in Detroit but not the dominant 'best defender' in basketball that he was labeled. Now he got his big deal in Chicago and it's turned from a huge move to one thats blown up in Chicago's face so far. (I predicted the signing would not have the impact fans and 'experts' were expecting.) Thats my player and opinion.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cb4fan @ Dec 3 2006, 12:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The New York Knick backcourt (Robinson, Marbury, Francis)</div> How in the hell are they overrated, nobody likes any of them.
Charley Rosen-"As for T-Mac, he's generally considered to be highly overrated by the league's coaches and scouts. His FG percentage is low, he still takes too many bad shots, his assist and TO totals are inflated because he gets so many touches, and his decision-making is iffy."-- Mailbag; 12/2/06I'd have to agree...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Dec 2 2006, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Right now I'd have to say that Ben Wallace is probably the most overrated player in the NBA. I loved what he did for the Pistons and the NBA in Detroit, he was fun to watch. For those few seasons he put up some great rebound and block numbers...and those numbers and his big bruiser image unfortunatley led to him winning some DPY awards that he didn't deserve. Because of those awards he will probably be elected into the HOF and future fans will call him one of the best defenders in NBA history and it's ridiculous. When you look past the braun and the image and numbers he was no more than a 'good' defender. From what I've read from players over the last few years Rasheed Wallace was the real defensive menace for the Pistons. Don't get me wrong, Wallace was a good defender in Detroit but not the dominant 'best defender' in basketball that he was labeled. Now he got his big deal in Chicago and it's turned from a huge move to one thats blown up in Chicago's face so far. (I predicted the signing would not have the impact fans and 'experts' were expecting.) Thats my player and opinion. How in the hell are they overrated, nobody likes any of them.</div>I dont necassarily agree, Why? because Ben did make a differance, oppenents averaged 90 points against these guys last year, and I think we can safely say it was Ben Wallace. I do agree he will be inducted to the HOF sometime, but wont be labelled as a great defensive player you are talking about. I say this because his image will be ruined and he wont get playing time this season, and the Bulls wont get far in the playoffs because of his attitude, and therefore, will no longer be recognized as a Bill Russelll Type player, but as Dennis Rodman type player. One reason the experts said that he would do good in Chicago because of the way he was treated in Detroit. It was the complete opposite of Chicago, no one said a word to him, they paid him good money, the coaching staff was there to help him grow, no one argued with him, they just wanted him happy. Now for the first time he is forced to be part of a team and is not doing well. Unfortunately for his case, Scott Skiles wont take no for an answer.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (falconman1130 @ Dec 2 2006, 10:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Charley Rosen-"As for T-Mac, he's generally considered to be highly overrated by the league's coaches and scouts. His FG percentage is low, he still takes too many bad shots, his assist and TO totals are inflated because he gets so many touches, and his decision-making is iffy."-- Mailbag; 12/2/06I'd have to agree...</div>I agree, that's my pick as well. Tracy McGrady is vastly overrated...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Dec 3 2006, 12:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I dont necassarily agree, Why? because Ben did make a differance, oppenents averaged 90 points against these guys last year, and I think we can safely say it was Ben Wallace. I do agree he will be inducted to the HOF sometime, but wont be labelled as a great defensive player you are talking about. I say this because his image will be ruined and he wont get playing time this season, and the Bulls wont get far in the playoffs because of his attitude, and therefore, will no longer be recognized as a Bill Russelll Type player, but as Dennis Rodman type player. One reason the experts said that he would do good in Chicago because of the way he was treated in Detroit. It was the complete opposite of Chicago, no one said a word to him, they paid him good money, the coaching staff was there to help him grow, no one argued with him, they just wanted him happy. Now for the first time he is forced to be part of a team and is not doing well. Unfortunately for his case, Scott Skiles wont take no for an answer.</div> If you don't agree with me, give me an argument. The Pistons had a very good all-around defensive unit, saying it was because of Ben Wallace is silly, he was a part. Rasheed Wallace is as good a post defender as anyone.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noah @ Dec 3 2006, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ben WallaceTim DuncanVince CarterTracy McGradyYao MingAll very over-rated IMO.</div> Why don't you give an argument and back up your opinions, anyone can make a random list.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Dec 2 2006, 11:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you don't agree with me, give me an argument. The Pistons had a very good all-around defensive unit, saying it was because of Ben Wallace is silly, he was a part. Rasheed Wallace is as good a post defender as anyone. Why don't you give an argument and back up your opinions, anyone can make a random list.</div>Im not saying it was all because of Ben Wallace, but to tell you the truth, tell me a player you think can gaurd down low better than Wallace last year? Not many. He was 5th in the NBA in rebounding last year, and was the only one in the NBA to play all 82 games and average more than 2 blocked shots. Rasheed average just about half in both categories. Rasheeds job wasnt to play defence solely, he was a scorer also. He was a good defender on the post, but would get pushed around down low, seeing as he only average 1 offensive rebound a game. IMO, hes more of a finesse scorer at times, and will switch it up in the post if he has too.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Dec 2 2006, 09:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why don't you give an argument and back up your opinions, anyone can make a random list.</div>Because I don't feel like it.
Chris BoshChris Bosh was a freaken all-star last year. His team was one of the worse, when I see him play he gets stats, and only stats. He doesn't do whats good for the team and I really dont see him getting to a superstar level. He would have to change his game. From looking at stats, you must think im crazy, but its my opinion that he has alotve the same qaulites yall are saying Tmac has.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Dec 3 2006, 12:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Im not saying it was all because of Ben Wallace, but to tell you the truth, tell me a player you think can gaurd down low better than Wallace last year? Not many. He was 5th in the NBA in rebounding last year, and was the only one in the NBA to play all 82 games and average more than 2 blocked shots. Rasheed average just about half in both categories. Rasheeds job wasnt to play defence solely, he was a scorer also. He was a good defender on the post, but would get pushed around down low, seeing as he only average 1 offensive rebound a game. IMO, hes more of a finesse scorer at times, and will switch it up in the post if he has too.</div> Again, your going by his numbers. I don't give a damn about his rebounding and block statistics. He's not the lockdown one on one defender he's given credit for period. Ben Wallace is not the NBA's best defender.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Dec 2 2006, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Again, your going by his numbers. I don't give a damn about his rebounding and block statistics. He's not the lockdown one on one defender he's given credit for period. Ben Wallace is not the NBA's best defender.</div>I agree, Ron Artest has been stripped of DPOY too many time...hes only won 1 .....come on...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Dec 2 2006, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Again, your going by his numbers. I don't give a damn about his rebounding and block statistics. He's not the lockdown one on one defender he's given credit for period. Ben Wallace is not the NBA's best defender.</div>I would have to agree. Most of Ben Wallace's blocks came off of weak side help defense, not from guarding his own man. He isn't the best one-on-one low post defender in the league... not last year, and certainly not this year. Tim Duncan is a better man-to-man low post defender than Wallace is... by a lot.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Dec 2 2006, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I dont necassarily agree, Why? because Ben did make a differance, oppenents averaged 90 points against these guys last year, and I think we can safely say it was Ben Wallace. I do agree he will be inducted to the HOF sometime, but wont be labelled as a great defensive player you are talking about. I say this because his image will be ruined and he wont get playing time this season, and the Bulls wont get far in the playoffs because of his attitude, and therefore, will no longer be recognized as a Bill Russelll Type player, but as Dennis Rodman type player. One reason the experts said that he would do good in Chicago because of the way he was treated in Detroit. It was the complete opposite of Chicago, no one said a word to him, they paid him good money, the coaching staff was there to help him grow, no one argued with him, they just wanted him happy. Now for the first time he is forced to be part of a team and is not doing well. Unfortunately for his case, Scott Skiles wont take no for an answer.</div>I think Ben Wallace is vastly overrated. Thinking he's going to the HoF is part of that! I love how Detroit winning the championship heralded the death of the superstar championship squads of the past (Kobe and Shaq, etc) and was going to bring in a new era of team focused ball.Fast forward a few years and we see that their great 'chemistry' was a facade. Ben Wallace and Larry Brown and definitely not chemistry guys. Ben Wallace acts like a spoiled child whenever things don't go his way. Seriously, whether or not the headband thing was a dumb rule is besides the point, the fact is Big Ben makes tons of money and STILL can't handle conflict like an adult. Basketball-Reference.com lists Ben Wallace as having a Hall of Fame probability of .003 (which can be likened to a .3% probability). Their method statistically has a 95.5% success rate.Ben Wallace is a good defender and rebounder, and a feel good story for how he managed to succeed in the league despite a rocky start, but honestly has only been a REAL factor since coming to Detroit. Before that he was a sub-par center on some sub-par teams (the only exception was his rookie year, that squad made the playoffs).His career is hardly a Hall of Fame one.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigMo763 @ Dec 3 2006, 01:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I would have to agree. Most of Ben Wallace's blocks came off of weak side help defense, not from guarding his own man. He isn't the best one-on-one low post defender in the league... not last year, and certainly not this year. Tim Duncan is a better man-to-man low post defender than Wallace is... by a lot.</div> Thank you BigMo...Nearly everyone listed Ben Wallace as the NBA's best post defender in CelticBalla's thread and it made me sick to my stomach.
I'm agreeing with BCB and BigMo on here and saying Ben Wallace. Pretty much can't elaborate on it since they covered it pretty damn good. Right when I saw this topic he jumped into my mind. :drunk: :happy0144:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Dec 3 2006, 12:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Again, your going by his numbers. I don't give a damn about his rebounding and block statistics. He's not the lockdown one on one defender he's given credit for period. Ben Wallace is not the NBA's best defender.</div>Agreed. But Ben wasnt playing one on one necassarily, the zones they played last year, he would be down low, and he would pick up whatever garbage came to him. He didnt usually have a man to man assignment.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Chris BoshChris Bosh was a freaken all-star last year. His team was one of the worse, when I see him play he gets stats, and only stats. He doesn't do whats good for the team and I really dont see him getting to a superstar level. He would have to change his game. From looking at stats, you must think im crazy, but its my opinion that he has alotve the same qaulites yall are saying Tmac has.</div>Wait till Cb4 reads this But wait till im finished with you. I think what you said is outrageous, opinion or not. Bosh right now is one of the NBA leaders in rebounding, and just lately is geting up in the point coulmn. As of last year, Bosh's team was one of the worse because:1. He had no second scoring options (dont say Mike James, because he was the only one)2. He had players beside him in the frontcourt like Aruajo, Loren Woods at times. So our frontcourt (center and pf) averaged about 24 points, (22 from Bosh), and 2 from whatever crap Sam threw in there.3. How can you say he was an all star and his team was one of the worst, and he only gets stats? So what? theres so many more examples: How about Allen Iverson? His team wasnt much better, they only won about 9 games more. They didnt make the playoffs eithier, are you saying he doesn't do good for the team? and he only gets stats like 33 PPG and 7 AST?4. How many times have you heard, "bosh is the future of this franchise", if every player like you said made that made the all star team had a winning record, I gaurantee you, there would be some players in there that you wouldnt see often. Like Bryant whos team was under 500 or around there I think prior to the all star game.
The idea of a second scoring option means that even if there's just ONE then he had one.So he had one.One thing in Bosh's defense is isn't he playing somewhat injured? The thing Tim Duncan had last year?
Rashard Lewis. People talk about him as an All-Star and everything, I don't see it. He is a good shooter, sure, but what else? He is athletic, but he doesn't use it to his advantage. His defense is non-existant, just like most Sonics players, he's 6'10'' and athletic and he doesn't drive/post up, he doesn't rebound. I don't think he's as good as people think he is. He was an All-Star a couple years ago.. eh.Lewis and Peja - same deal.
