You make the call.......

As per the testing at that time, yes. Lance Armstrong never failed a test either.

 

I don't care what the stance is, Clemens and Bonds belong. And Smoltz (and Schilling and Mussina even more so) does not belong. It's the Hall of Fame, not the hall of very good.

 

Damn it Bern, you had to use THAT avatar, now everyone is going to know what I look like.

 

I disagree wholeheartedly... Bonds & Clemens would have been no brainers, but they definitely do not belong in the hall of fame... Hall of shame, sure, but not the HOF... Smoltz belongs.... Maybe Mussina

 

^^^ this !

 

...and this is what he looks like now;

 

Okay so that's what I'll look like in 10-15 more years when I get older.

 

I think I read somewhere that he's actually training in attempt to get into the fight game...he must really need the money. Also read that he nearly drank himself to death.

 

He was in The Expendables 2... What, 2 years ago? He looked in good shape then

 

As for Bonds and Clemens, they allegedly took substances that were not banned at the time that they played, however doing so would have been a crime to obtain said materials without a prescription. Sorry but that's equivalent to speed and/or coke use, and there are no shortage of users in the Hall.

You can put those two in the Ty Cobb wing for all time great asshole players. But they belong in.

 

Where did you get your braille keyboard?

 

Expendables II began filming in September of 2011...alcohol abuse can age people very quickly and movie make up can conceal a lot.

 

Steroids have been a banned substance in Baseball since 1991.

 

ok, so I was off... 3 years instead of 2 (if you consider the movie wasn't done filming in 3 months)... yes, it does wreck you quickly, but he's been doing crap for years... I don't doubt that make-up had been used in the movie, but his face is sunken in with the picture you showed... That's kinda hard to cover up with make-up...

 

Yeah he looks like he hasn't had a good meal in some time.

 

And I don't dispute the fact he's abused his body far too much, but again, not sure how the make-up could cover up the fact he looks like he hasn't had a good meal nor do I think that could happen in the 3-year period unless he had cancer or aids or something...

 

...he face looks "sunken in" because it's a much more current picture, which is why I said "this is what he looks like now".

...make up in the movie 3 years ago...no make up in the current picture.





...not at all sure what the argument is.

 

Which specific compounds? Pretty easy to craft new analogs that aren't the banned substances. Sorry to get lawyerly here, but the term "steroids" is too general. Cortisone is a steroid...is getting a cortisone shot cheating? I mean it does enhance performance.

My point is that it took baseball quite some time to link structures to the physiological activities and adopt testing that eliminated the analog game. In the drug world this is happened between pharma companies all the time....working around each others patent claims. Illegal drug designers employed similar strategies because govt regulatory agencies were stupid and just banned very narrow structures and classes.

There are entirely new classes of drugs coming on line in the next 5 years that will essentially revolutionize how one defines Performance Enhancing (not Viagra Rob). There will be no way to keep it out of athletics because frankly the healthcare system will likely mandate the widespread adoption of these compounds. This is partly why I'm an advocate for leveling the biological playing field. Old guys like Bonds and Clemens, even with supplements didn't have the sustained testosterone levels of the 21 year old rookies like a Mike Trout. I'd like to see this concept tested and studied. My chemical intuition is that they didn't much of an advantage at all....and much less than what lay people believe.

 

I don't need an education on the steroid subject...and how many players have been busted for getting a cortisone shot, which is something that is typically Doctor prescribed?...terrible comparison.

...I'll say it again, steroids have been banned since 1991 and anyone who wants to skew things by implying that Bonds and/or Clemens gained an edge by using something other than steroids is simply beating their own PEDs agenda drum.

 

Regardless of the stance anyone wants to take on Vitamin S, or the time frame, the legality issue of Vitamin S, regardless: above and beyond the use of Vit S.......the one implicit knock on both players, incl. other players also, IS:

No one is supposed to be exempt from lying to Congress, or in courts. PERJURY is not a forgivable offense, and NO Restitution for as much were ever made or spoken of. NONE......we all know if the common person in the US, were to perjure their testimony in front of a GJ or Congress, the common person would be doing time behind bars.

Congress threw themselves under the bus on this issue, and let MLB Players create a mockery charade of "Sworn Oaths".