Religion How secular family values stack up

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by SlyPokerDog, Feb 4, 2015.

  1. crowTrobot

    crowTrobot die comcast

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    Not exactly sure what you're talking about here, but Christians seem to almost universally agree that slavery is objectively immoral. The values I referred to are theirs, not mine (necessarily). Again my only point was that the Supreme Court does not follow the 10 Commandments, so the fact that they are on a wall is irrelevant.
     
  2. crowTrobot

    crowTrobot die comcast

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    Sounds like you're trying to drum up business for your dealer.
     
  3. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    So when you give someone a Christmas gift, their acceptance thereof constitutes obedience to you?
     
  4. crowTrobot

    crowTrobot die comcast

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    Yes if the acceptance involves requirements.

    I (supposedly) can't just say to the air "Yeah Yahweh I don't believe in you, but if you do happen to be out there I'll take some of that salvation" and go back to my stealing killing bearing false witness while worshipping other gods life, and poof I'm accepted.
     
  5. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Well, considering that Faith is a precursor for acceptance, it would be pretty difficult to accept a Faith-based salvation while simultaneously disavowing belief in God. But that still doesn't constitute an obedience requirement.
     
  6. BlazerCaravan

    BlazerCaravan Hug a Bigot... to Death

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  7. crowTrobot

    crowTrobot die comcast

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    No it's not. I just did exactly that. If there is eternal life in Heaven with the creator of the universe available without any obedience requirements I'll definitely take some of that.

    You're just using "Faith-based" as a spin term trying to hide the obedience requirement of belief.
     
  8. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    You call belief obedience, and claim I'm engaging in spin? You crack me up.
     
  9. Further

    Further Guy

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    Nope, not me. I agree there is no absolute or non-subjective right or wrong. However, I do believe we live in a community and with norms and balance, and there are collectivly agreed upon (subjective for sure) morals or ethical base standards. In the grand scheme of things there is nothing in inherently wrong with killing at random. But, within the constructs of a civilization ethics become defined by our history, scholars and citizenry. The norms, laws and and intelligent stewerdship create a set of standards which may be looked at as morality.

    And I certainly have not commented on how those constructs affect animals. I'm planning a hunting trip for next winter.
     
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  10. crowTrobot

    crowTrobot die comcast

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    If you're saying belief isn't commanded in the Bible you're making up your own religion.
     
  11. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    If you're saying that a precursor is a command, then you're making up your own language.
     
  12. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Denny told me to get more traffic in the OT section, religious threads always pay off!

    You guys carry on, I'm getting the popcorn.
     
  13. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20150205/us--obama-prayer_breakfast-f3b989dcc5.html

    Obama had a more non-denominational message for the audience that also included prominent leaders of non-Christian faiths. The president said that while religion is a source for good around the world, people of all faiths have been willing to "hijack religion for their own murderous ends."

    "Unless we get on our high horse and think that this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ," Obama said. "In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ.

    "So it is not unique to one group or one religion," Obama said. "There is a tendency in us, a simple tendency that can pervert and distort our faith."

    Obama called for all people of faiths to show humility about their beliefs and reject the idea that "God speaks only to us and doesn't speak to others."
     
  14. crowTrobot

    crowTrobot die comcast

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    I'm not. I'm saying belief is commanded in the Bible and is a requirement for salvation.
     
  15. crowTrobot

    crowTrobot die comcast

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    Having to be a closet atheist must be a bitch.
     
  16. Further

    Further Guy

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    I'm not sure about the New Testament, but I a rabbi at my old synagogue said that one of the main differences between judaism and Christianity is that to be a good Jew, we only need to ACT in accordance with the laws, but one does not need to believe or think in any particular way. In fact, the purpose of studying the Talmud (one of the main Jewish texts) is to learn to think, to learn to question. The hope is that once one ACTS in accorordance with the 613 mitzvots (laws), they will choose to believe, but it's not a necessity.
    Whereas the rabbi said that christians were required to believe and that this belief is placed over actions. But what I don't know about the New Testament is if it states that one must believe explicitly, or if that has simply become the custom in that organization? Certainly born again christians must profess belief, but I'm not sure if this pertains to all denominations or if it is innate to their scripture.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2015
  17. crowTrobot

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    Believe in Jesus as the savior is explicitly commanded
     
  18. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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  19. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    No it is not.
     
  20. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    You should have called Sly. I had a gig for you to checkout, giving orders instead of humping on command.
     

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