<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LightsOut @ Dec 9 2006, 10:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Eh, it really could go either way. I think Haslem's been overrated just a tad playing next to shaq almost his whole career though.</div>I don't think so, because Shaq has only been around for one entire season with Haslem. Shaq was hurt for a good chunk of time last year, and has been hurt for most of this season so far.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Dec 9 2006, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't think so, because Shaq has only been around for one entire season with Haslem. Shaq was hurt for a good chunk of time last year, and has been hurt for most of this season so far.</div>Okay Shaq has been hurt, still most of the time Haslem has done well has been with Shaq (over the last 2-3 years). Haslem's first year without him, he was pretty bad and didn't even start.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SunnyD @ Dec 10 2006, 01:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Who are the top twenty from this amazing draft class? I'm going by career for this.1. Lebron James2. Dwyane Wade</div>If your going by career how is James above Wade they both have had a great career so far but simply put wade has the ring - that would make me put him #1 (career wise)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LightsOut @ Dec 9 2006, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Okay Shaq has been hurt, still most of the time Haslem has done well has been with Shaq (over the last 2-3 years). Haslem's first year without him, he was pretty bad and didn't even start.</div>Haslem's first year without Shaq he was a rookie, most rookies dont come in and do just awesome. Lots of them have to work their way into the lineup. This year without Shaq, next to D-Wade, he has been the most consistent person on the team. Last year without Shaq he was very consistent.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Dec 9 2006, 10:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>First off, this thread is about who has been better up to this point in their career. Up to this point in their careers, Haslem has been more consistent and better than Ford has been. He hasn't been hurt, and you know what you are going to get from him pretty much every night Haslem is in the game. For this season though, I would still take Haslem over Ford. Since you like stats, Haslem is putting up 13 points this season, and 9 rebounds this season, which is not much different than 14 points and 8 assists. The big difference I find between Ford and Haslem, is that Haslem is a much better defensive player for his position, than Ford is for his position. Haslem is the type of dirty work player that I like, and Ford will never be that kind of player.</div>Oh so TJ Ford wasnt consistent because he was injured for a season? Come on..TJ Ford was better than Haslem last year, and he's better than him this season. 13 points and 9 rebounds is alot less impressive than 14 points and 8 assists. There are 31 guys in this league averaging 7 rpg or more. There are 10 guys in the league averaging 7 assists or more..That shows you that it is alot more common to have good rebounding numbers than excellent assist numbers. TJ is a top 10 playmaker in the League. He has excellent court vision, and he helps our offense out a ton. I would say running an offense is more important than getting a defensive rebound. Okay, Haslem is the better defense player, but TJ is the much, much, much better offensive player too. It goes both ways. If he took more shots with in the offense instead of passing the ball, TJ would be an 18 ppg point guard. Whenever we need a basket, he goes and gets one...and look at his court vision and passing ability. Okay..Haslem....gets rebounds...<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ Dec 9 2006, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'd have Josh Howard above Hinrich, and it could be debated above Bosh...But basically I think LBJ, Wade, Melo, Josh Howard, and Bosh are the top 5 from that draft class.And once again...just how GOOD was that draft class...it's pretty much amazing looking back on it.</div>Maybe you forgot, but Bosh is an all star, a 22-12 guy, and just a better player than Howard. This is as biased as it gets.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Dec 10 2006, 07:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Oh so TJ Ford wasnt consistent because he was injured for a season? Come on..TJ Ford was better than Haslem last year, and he's better than him this season. 13 points and 9 rebounds is alot less impressive than 14 points and 8 assists. There are 31 guys in this league averaging 7 rpg or more. There are 10 guys in the league averaging 7 assists or more..That shows you that it is alot more common to have good rebounding numbers than excellent assist numbers. TJ is a top 10 playmaker in the League. He has excellent court vision, and he helps our offense out a ton. I would say running an offense is more important than getting a defensive rebound. Okay, Haslem is the better defense player, but TJ is the much, much, much better offensive player too. It goes both ways. If he took more shots with in the offense instead of passing the ball, TJ would be an 18 ppg point guard. Whenever we need a basket, he goes and gets one...and look at his court vision and passing ability. Okay..Haslem....gets rebounds...</div>Racking up assists is completely overrated in my opinion. All that shows, is that he gets to hold the ball more in my opinion. Furthermore, teams with 7 assists per game or more players, do not win championships. The past few years, every team in the league that won the championship, did not have a 7 assist per game person on their team. The Heat last year had no one on their team that averaged 7 assists per game, The Spurs the past two times they won, the Pistons the year they won, the Lakers, the Bulls, the Rockets. Since 1990, only the Spurs of 1999 has had a 7 assist or more person on their team in Avery Johsnon. That means, in 16 years, only once has a team that had a 7 assist player or more win a championship. Now look at how many of those teams won a championship with a 9 rebound per game or more rebounder in that time frame. Every one of those teams has had a 9 rebound per game or more person on their team. Furthermore teams need just a little bit of defense to win championships these days, and TJ Ford offers no defense.That is why I would much rather have Udonis Haslem than TJ Ford. I am in no way debating who is a better one on one player out of TJ Ford, or Udonis Haslem. I am just merely pointing out that you are more likely to win a title with a Haslem type power forward, than a TJ Ford like point guard these days.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Dec 10 2006, 10:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Racking up assists is completely overrated in my opinion. All that shows, is that he gets to hold the ball more in my opinion. Furthermore, teams with 7 assists per game or more players, do not win championships. The past few years, every team in the league that won the championship, did not have a 7 assist per game person on their team. The Heat last year had no one on their team that averaged 7 assists per game, The Spurs the past two times they won, the Pistons the year they won, the Lakers, the Bulls, the Rockets. Since 1990, only the Spurs of 1999 has had a 7 assist or more person on their team in Avery Johsnon. That means, in 16 years, only once has a team that had a 7 assist player or more win a championship. Now look at how many of those teams won a championship with a 9 rebound per game or more rebounder in that time frame. Every one of those teams has had a 9 rebound per game or more person on their team. Furthermore teams need just a little bit of defense to win championships these days, and TJ Ford offers no defense.That is why I would much rather have Udonis Haslem than TJ Ford. I am in no way debating who is a better one on one player out of TJ Ford, or Udonis Haslem. I am just merely pointing out that you are more likely to win a title with a Haslem type power forward, than a TJ Ford like point guard these days.</div>I'm not going to debate this any longer. But I'd much rather have a great pg on my team than a guy who just rebounds..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clangus @ Dec 10 2006, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If your going by career how is James above Wade they both have had a great career so far but simply put wade has the ring - that would make me put him #1 (career wise)</div>Oh boy. The old Lebron James and Dwyane Wade comparison. Lebron is better than Wade, Lebron was better than Wade in his rookie season. Wade has had a much much better supporting cast than Lebron.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Dec 10 2006, 02:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Haslem's first year without Shaq he was a rookie, most rookies dont come in and do just awesome. Lots of them have to work their way into the lineup. This year without Shaq, next to D-Wade, he has been the most consistent person on the team. Last year without Shaq he was very consistent.</div>He has, but the fact is he's played next to Shaq for most of his career and I think that's helped him just a little bit.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SunnyD @ Dec 11 2006, 02:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Oh boy. The old Lebron James and Dwyane Wade comparison. Lebron is better than Wade, Lebron was better than Wade in his rookie season. Wade has had a much much better supporting cast than Lebron.</div>you said career - the defining part of anyone's career is a ring! Wade has it - for get the supporting cast - wade carried the heat and he has a finals MVP too. Wade is not as good as lebron agreed but BASED ON CAREER he has the creds.
