Thibs' offensive schemes are as good as his defense. You can see it on the court. Even with grit and lesser talent, we pretty much stayed in games and built late leads and survived the late game FT contests. He's turned a really bad offensive player into a point center. Brooks is having the 2nd best season of his career. His schemes featured Jimmy to the point he scores 20+ a game and is an all-star. Rose won MVP running his offense. Even Taj has turned into a pretty good offensive player in Thibs' schemes. The choreography of it all is really slick, if you bother to see it. Two games ago, the give and go between Noah or Gasol and Snell was money for a half. I don't blame Thibs for the injuries, they can happen at any time. Rose hurt is knees on plays with no contact at all. We are definitely hurting right now, but we are missing two starters and our 6MOY candidate, plus Noah has been gimpy especially lately. All 5 starters weren't healthy enough to start or play many games together, early season when there was less fatigue or not.
Good call on that one. Other than GarPax, who are you referring to? The team (players - coach) has been remarkably drama-free from my perspective. Management - coach is another story, but it was the same stuff with Del Negro. Great post!
Camp update The Keep Thibs camp K4E, DaBullz, Rosenthall Focused on other matters camp. TBF, Transplant The F*** Thibs camp SST --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |the tracks | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Thidiot" camp Bullsville
That's a huge part of why there is no "consensus" here. Everyone, everywhere embelishes toward their side of the argument. But to say that "We're replacing a coach who's won a championship" is so completely disingenous and wrong that it completely prohibits having an honest, intelligent conversation. If we want to start including coaches who have been assistants on championship teams, we'll need to expand the hell out of our conversation. But it might be even more of a bullshit stance to claim that Thibs is the coach "whose regular season record as head coach is unsurpassed by any coach in history." Even if we leave out coaches who only coached 2 seasons (Ed McCauley, Dave Joerger) or 3 seasons (Larry Bird), that still only leaves Thibs with the 6th-best W/L record. http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/NBA_stats.html Then you read stuff like "GarPax should should not control minutes from on high" - where is there any evidence that they do this? Outside of minute limits for guys coming back from injury, which is certainly not uncommon in the NBA. And when you show an example of this actually happening - like the thread I started about how Dumars got rid of Carlisle because he played veterans over the talented rookies Joe D had drafted - and there is no discussion, just two posts about Tim Floyd. Who never coached under GarPax, but that's the kind of disingenuous stuff you get. Or how about "Thibs is a real asset and Gar Pax are middling front office talents at best. If anyone should go, they should. I think you'll find this sentiment expressed in other parts of the internet as well." Wow, yeah you will. How about "Thibs needs to do a much better job of controlling minutes, of not playing veterans who aren't as good as youngsters behind them on the depth chart, of pulling his regulars with a 20 point lead and three minutes left in the game." I think you'll find this sentiment expressed in other parts of the internet as well. This is a front office - - that drafted an All-Defense All-Star (Butler) with the last pick of the first round. - that drafted a 2-time All-Star, who was 1st-Team All-NBA and Defensive Player of the Year last season at #9. - that got Mirotic at #23, and he's already got a Rookie of the Month under his belt in spite of Thibs, who hadn't played him more than 19.1 minutes in any month before this one when Taj was out injured. (Now that he's getting real minutes this month, he's given the team 19.5 pts and 8.6 reb with a .547 TS% in 32.6 min). - that signed an All-Star who is 5th in the NBA in Blocked Shots Per Game, 4th in the NBA in Rebounds Per Game, 5th in the NBA in Defensive Win Shares, 5th in the NBA in Defensive Rebound Percentage, 8th in the NBA in Total Rebound Percentage, 10th in the NBA in PER, and #1 in the NBA in Double-Doubles... for 34.5% of his maximum salary. - that drafted Snell, who is 2nd on the team to Butler in TS% (.572) and 2nd to MDJ in 3pt% (.408), at #20. - that drafted Taj Gibson, last year's runner-up for 6th Man of the Year, at #26. I'm quite confident that GarPax have drafted better than any NBA team over the last decade. It's no surprise to many of us that Mirotic, Snell, and (more recently for a much shorter period of time) McDoug are putting up pretty impressive numbers now that Thibs has been completely, 100% forced to play them due to injuries. Overall, they've done a great job over the last 10 years. There are unsubstantiated rumors that they are "smearing" Thibs, but I don't remember reading one single quote by either of them where they are "smearing" Thibs. They aren't perfect, no doubt about that. They are very, very good however - just like Thibs. But Thibs has shown he's not going to adjust his coaching style, which is still stuck in the 90's. I'd like to see Thibs stay, if he would attempt to adjust his style and work on his weaknesses. So far, I haven't seen any evidence that he will.
I would certainly say I'm leaning that way, though I'd prefer that he learn from his mistakes and adjust. I'm pretty sure I've been clear in my criticisms: Quit playing the oldest regular on the team the 2nd most minutes on the team. Quit playing Hinrich ANY minutes at SG, and quit playing him ANY minutes at PG unless Brooks and Moore are both in foul trouble. Make sure Niko gets more minutes than Taj, barring some crazy, unforeseen circumstance that I can't even imagine. Quit playing anyone more than 12 minutes interrupted without giving them at least a 2-3 minute blow to get a little rest. And my "Thidiot" reference refers to one specific, idiotic, inexcusable move (replacing McDoug with MDJ when McDoug was 3-3 FG, 2-2 3's and 2-2 FT for 10 points in 5:16). That was quite possibly the dumbest coaching move I've ever seen in any sport at any time. Ever.
How exactly is Thibs "stuck in the 90s" when he had his success as "associate head coach" of the Celtics during the mid aughts and was hired by the Bulls in 2010, where he's had a great run? Surely someone who is playing 90s style NBA ball would not have won so many games from 2010 on. There may not be a consensus, other than only one person is in the "thidiot" camp.
What a joke. OKC drafted Durant, Harden, and Westbrook. Any of the three are MVP candidates. Easily the team with the best drafts over the past decade. I didn't even include Adams (who starts for them) or Reggie Jackson or Ibaka or Bledsoe. Thibs has the best first 5 year record of any coach in history. I wouldn't extrapolate that further or compare against coaches with longer tenure to prove that wrong somehow. It's hard to have an intelligent discussion when one person thinks he's the only intelligent "fan" on the whole internet.
http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150303/sports/150309803/ Thibs deserves an extension from Bulls Head coach Tom Thibodeau has a career record of 242-130 (.651) in five seasons with the Bulls, and he was NBA Coach of the Year in his first season. Associated Press By Mike North The Rebel Inside It appears the set up for Tom Thibodeau's departure is being orchestrated. With Derrick Rose injured and out for the third year in a row, the Chicago Bulls are looking for someone to blame. What a joke. Everyone had an opinion on Rose during his recovery process, including Jerry Reinsdorf, John Paxson, Gar Forman, the medical staff, Rose's handlers and Rose himself, but now we are supposed to believe it's all Thibs' fault. Sorry, but that's just a bunch of bull. I wrote in Friday's column that it doesn't make sense to point fingers. Nothing the Bulls have done could have changed the outcome because ultimately it boils down to Rose and his body. It simply failed him. But if you need to cast blame, how can you pin it on the coach when the chain of command goes much higher? ... The coach has been hamstrung for three years and still put together a very good and competitive team. Many reports suggest Fred Hoiberg, head coach at Iowa State University, is on the Bulls' radar. How sad. Thibs deserves an extension, not goat horns.
I'm intelligent enough to do simple, basic, 6th Grade math. If there are two people, and one of them can't do simple, basic 6th Grade math, which one is the intelligent one? Phil Jackson, first 5 seasons: 55-27 61-21 67-15 57-25 55-27 295 wins, 115 losses .720 winning percentage http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/jacksph01c.html ============================ Pat Riley, first 5 seasons: 50-21 58-24 54-28 62-20 62-20 288 wins, 113 losses .718 winning percentage http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/rileypa01c.html ============================ Eric Spoelstra, first 5 seasons: 43-39 47-35 58-24 46-20 66-16 260 wins, 134 losses .660 winning percentage http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/spoeler99c.html ============================ Tom Thibodeau, first 5 seasons: 62-20 50-16 45-37 48-34 40-28 245 wins, 135 losses .645 winning percentage http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/thiboto99c.html Now maybe my math is off, but I always thought that a .720 winning percentage was better than a .645 winning percentage. I also heard a rumor that a .718 winning percentage is better than a .645 winning percentage. I asked my youngest boy, and he said that what they are currently teaching in school is that 660 is a higher number than 645.* *Disclaimer - He's only in 5th grade, not 6th grade.
Sorry I am late to the discussion, Bullsville your last sentence is the way I feel at this time. He needs to tone down the desire to win every game! I am not saying lose on purpose. I think all of you know what I am saying.
Wow, that's like a Mt Rushmore of coaching greats. It really puts into perspective what Thibs has accomplished here.
Last year the team missed Derrick Rose for 72 games, had no DJ Agustin for 21, traded away Deng in a salary dump to increase profits, featured Carlos Boozer as our #1 scoring option, and had little choice but to play Hinrich 29 minutes a game. There was talk of tanking for a top lotto pick. That team could do no better than 30th out of 30 scoring and 28th out of 30 at Off Rtg. Instead, Thibs coached that motley crew to 48 wins. That's more wins than any team in the GarPaxDorf era with any other coach. But... FIRE THIDIOT!
Yeah, I try very hard to avoid exposure to those with whom I disagree. That's why I love it here. I congratulate you, Denny. By bringing a Mike North article to this forum, you have made me feel guilty for disparaging Friedell and Cowley. Those two are Grantland Rice and Shirley Povich compared to North. I know that it doesn't matter to you, and it shouldn't, but I can't take anything Mike North says seriously, so I can't take any argument that uses North's opinions as support seriously. North's a narcissistic windbag who is all bullshit and zero substance.
He's published in the Herald twice weekly? And has his own radio show. If everyone were you, nobody would buy the paper or listen to the radio show. Yet... He still has a job both places. You are the outlier.
