How important do you think NBA coaches are compared to the players? Who's the sole reason for winning ball games?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Who's the sole reason for winning ball games?</div>I don't think there's a sole reason for winning games, especially when it comes down to coaches and players. Their both needed to win. But I think coaches are definately an important aspect. You need a good coach who has his players attentions and plays them to their ability. You get a coach who might have a bunch of talented players and none of their respect. Besides a possible playoff berth, I see them never winning a championship. Simply because the players are playing for themselves and have no cohesiveness, which is what I think a coach brings.
Compared to the NBA players, the coach's are not that important. They can guide and give ways for the players to do things, but without the players on the court playing, that coach is nothing. You want proof that it's the players, and not the coach that makes the team, look at the Knicks last year. It is widely considered that Larry Brown is one of the greatest coach's of all time, and some people even go as far, as to say that he is the greatest defensive coach of all time. If coach's made that big of a difference, then the Knicks would not have finished with 23 wins last year, they would have been much better. I have seen very few instances where a coach has made the team, the players are who wins the games.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Dec 12 2006, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Compared to the NBA players, the coach's are not that important. They can guide and give ways for the players to do things, but without the players on the court playing, that coach is nothing. You want proof that it's the players, and not the coach that makes the team, look at the Knicks last year. It is widely considered that Larry Brown is one of the greatest coach's of all time, and some people even go as far, as to say that he is the greatest defensive coach of all time. If coach's made that big of a difference, then the Knicks would not have finished with 23 wins last year, they would have been much better. I have seen very few instances where a coach has made the team, the players are who wins the games.</div><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">I've always said that high school coaches are extremely important, college coaches in the higher ranks are important but no too much, and in the NBA, the coaches don't matter all that much. Everyone thought that Larry Brown would turn the Knicks around and they didn't do sh*t. Everyone says that Phil Jackson is this great coach, but he's had at least 5 hall of fame players play for him. I could have taken the Bulls to at least 3 titles. NBA players know the game well enough to pretty much know what needs to be done in situations, and all coaches really do anymore is call plays out of time outs and inbound plays. </span></span>
I think the value of the sideline coach is pretty underrated. You don't see average coaches like Flip Saunders and Terry Stotts winning titles, and you never will. Look at the coaches from the recent NBA Champions: Phil Jackson, Gregg Popovich, Larry Brown, Pat Riley, and Rudy Tomjanovic. Those were amazing coaches, and although they did have great players, they lead their team to victory. About Larry Brown: Coaches don't always determine if there will be good chemistry or not. Larry Brown helped AI turn out well, but he was unsuccessful with Stephon Marbury. It doesn't mean he's a bad coach. He just had the players that play for the back of the jersey (Starbury, Francis, Curry)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SunnyD @ Dec 12 2006, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think the value of the sideline coach is pretty underrated. You don't see average coaches like Flip Saunders and Terry Stotts winning titles, and you never will. Look at the coaches from the recent NBA Champions: Phil Jackson, Gregg Popovich, Larry Brown, Pat Riley, and Rudy Tomjanovic. Those were amazing coaches, and although they did have great players, they lead their team to victory. About Larry Brown: Coaches don't always determine if there will be good chemistry or not. Larry Brown helped AI turn out well, but he was unsuccessful with Stephon Marbury. It doesn't mean he's a bad coach. He just had the players that play for the back of the jersey (Starbury, Francis, Curry)</div>All of these coach's you put up have had great players, or great teams around them. -Phil Jackson had Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Kobe Bryant, and Shaq all as his players. -Gregg Popovich has had Tim Duncan his entire career. His first season the team didn't do so hot, Duncan gets drafted, the team wins a title. -Rudy had Hakeem Olajuwon, and Clyde Drexler before he won any championships, look what happened when Hakeem left the -Rockets, they was a 28-54 team. In 2000 when Olajuwon was hurt, and played only 40 games, the team went 34-48. -Larry Brown didn't win any championships until he got to the Pistons, who had a stud lineup with him.-Pat Riley has had all star teams almost his entire career, and when he didn't, his teams didn't do to well. The coach might be just a bit important, but they are no where near the most important part of the NBA team, the players are what's important.
But I'm saying that if you replace the Phil Jackson of the Bulls with someone like Terry Stotts or Doc Rivers, then you have a much worse chance of winning the title.Remember when Phil Jackson was on the Lakers and left? They Lakers did terrible. He comes back, they make the playoffs. That's just an example about how the importance of coaches are underrated
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SunnyD @ Dec 12 2006, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But I'm saying that if you replace the Phil Jackson of the Bulls with someone like Terry Stotts or Doc Rivers, then you have a much worse chance of winning the title.Remember when Phil Jackson was on the Lakers and left? They Lakers did terrible. He comes back, they make the playoffs. That's just an example about how the importance of coaches are underrated</div>Agreed
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SunnyD @ Dec 12 2006, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But I'm saying that if you replace the Phil Jackson of the Bulls with someone like Terry Stotts or Doc Rivers, then you have a much worse chance of winning the title.Remember when Phil Jackson was on the Lakers and left? They Lakers did terrible. He comes back, they make the playoffs. That's just an example about how the importance of coaches are underrated</div>When Jackson left the Lakers, Shaq left to. That is something that the team had to get used to, and Kobe Bryant had to get used to playing as the main scorer compared to the complimentary role that he had in the past years. That is something hard to get used to sometimes, and might take a year. The year that Jackson came back, he brought a few players with him. Smush Parker and Kwame Brown to name a couple.
Perfect example = the Pistons.all with the same teamPlayoffs w/ CarlisleChampionship w/ BrownPlayoffs w/ Flip :yes1: Coaches are very important. I think that assistant coaches do a majority of the one-on-one coaching that alot of young players need. They are vital to the development of a young team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L_C @ Dec 12 2006, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Perfect example = the Pistons.all with the same teamPlayoffs w/ CarlisleChampionship w/ BrownPlayoffs w/ Flip :yes1: Coaches are very important. I think that assistant coaches do a majority of the one-on-one coaching that alot of young players need. They are vital to the development of a young team.</div><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="font-family:Arial">When Brown left, alot of players did too. The Pistons had a very good bench when there were playing in the finals.</span></span>
Massively - alot of NBA games come down to the final minute of so, Thats where the plays the coaches write up. Look at Seattle - have been in about 7-8 close games this year losing 6 or so of them - mostly because our dumb F*ck coach keeps giving the other team a chance to win it- leaves them time on the clock -AHHHHHHHHHHHHh
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SunnyD @ Dec 12 2006, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think the value of the sideline coach is pretty underrated. You don't see average coaches like Flip Saunders and Terry Stotts winning titles, and you never will. Look at the coaches from the recent NBA Champions: Phil Jackson, Gregg Popovich, Larry Brown, Pat Riley, and Rudy Tomjanovic.</div>But if Saunders and Stotts won titles they'd be considered great coaches, and the coaches you mentioned are considered great coaches because they've won championships, so it's a moot point
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tHe_pEsTiLeNcE @ Dec 12 2006, 05:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But if Saunders and Stotts won titles they'd be considered great coaches, and the coaches you mentioned are considered great coaches because they've won championships, so it's a moot point</div>Yeah, but a few of the ones he mentioned have won championships on multiple teams. It's obvious that there's some association there. A coach won't win you a championship, but given the proper players, he can make the difference.
Last year with the Pistons under Flip Saunders, I honestly felt that Flip had nothing to do with their success. It seemed like Chauncey was calling the shots - he was deciding the plays, he was basically running the team. If anything - Flip kind of messed up the team with his rotations and decision to not play the bench as often as they should. So I think a coach isn't really necessary in some cases - however this is dependent only on the players on the team. If the players can handle this by showing maturity and leadership - than yes, they could manage themselves. If the coach is a great coach like a Larry Brown, or a Gregg Popavich than a coach is instrumental in improving the team and the players will embrace this coach.
The players are the ones that play the game, but teams like the Raptors, Celtics, Hawks cannot finish ball games, and they don't play as well as their potential because of the lack of strategic efficiency.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Dec 12 2006, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, but a few of the ones he mentioned have won championships on multiple teams. It's obvious that there's some association there. A coach won't win you a championship, but given the proper players, he can make the difference.</div>robert horry's won championships on multiple teams too so that's a moot point as well
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tHe_pEsTiLeNcE @ Dec 12 2006, 06:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>robert horry's won championships on multiple teams too so that's a moot point as well</div>Actually, it is interesting that you bring up Horry, because he actually has been a direct cause for teams winning championships. You're kinda proving me right here, since I said that when you give a great coach the proper players, you win a championship. Same thing for Horry. He is a role player, so when you put him in a franchise with some great stars, he will help you win a championship, indeed. Once again, there is an association. Please try to prove me wrong with some actual logic.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L_C @ Dec 12 2006, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Perfect example = the Pistons.all with the same teamPlayoffs w/ CarlisleChampionship w/ BrownPlayoffs w/ Flip :yes1: Coaches are very important. I think that assistant coaches do a majority of the one-on-one coaching that alot of young players need. They are vital to the development of a young team.</div>That team that Carlisle had was different than the team Brown had, and was a big reason for why he won and Brown did not win. Prine was a second year player when Carlisle got there, and not a rookie, and as you know that leap between their rookie season and their sophmore season is usually a big one, and the player gets much better. They got Lindsey Hunter towards the end of the season, they got Mike James towards the end of the season, and they brought in Elden Campbell to be another big bruiser down low for the team. Also factor in that Rasheed Wallace was traded to the team later that season, this was a different team the year Brown got there compared to the year before while Carlisle was there.
