Hey TB that doesn't work against the Blackhawks

this is going back to a theme we've revisited a few times on this board...since the 05 lockout EVERY SINGLE CUP WINNER (minus the Wings) had at least one top 3 pick within the last few years that strongly contributed to their run. And it'll be true again this year, either with the Hawks or TB (Stamkos 1OA, Hedman 2OA).

We dont have that luxury. We need to get the talent somehow. There is a median like 31 has pointed out. You cant do this every year. But we stockpiled those late first/2nd guys, and now that they're contributing we've dumped a few first rounders to get that elite talent we need. Hasnt gotten us quite there yet but damn are we close.

 

Messiah, with all due respect what the hell are you talking about/smoking? Where am I acting like this team is complete garbage? I'm saying history shows you need world-class talent to win a cup along with a strong supporting cast. We got the strong supporting class through the guys you mentioned, all of whom I am very high on and are continuing to get better. To get the world class talent like Nash and St.Louis (which unfortunately didnt work out for us) we had to part with some first round picks, which I am perfectly fine doing.

Where did you pull this "the team is complete garbage" crap from?

 

I KNOW THEY HAVE TALENT. I'm not expecting any world class players to just "fall out of the sky," we have our talent in Nash (for better or for worse) and I'm making this argument to show why trading the first round pick to get a player like him was necessary. Without Nash, and St. Louis last year, this team would have been on the playoff bubble.

I'm not advocating for getting more superstars here, that isnt feasible. I'm saying why getting the ones we did was necessary. Read a little more carefully.

 

Prod what it seems like your saying is that we have to hang on to picks because they turned into players like Dubi, AA and Cally in order to make the trades for the superior talent, while I agree with you, eventually though you run out of those picks and when you do you cant double talk and say we need to start hanging onto these picks for the future team.

A lot of arguing over nothing much IMO lol

 

Oh boy. You cant do it every year as in GOING FORWARD because eventually all the supporting cast guys like Kreider, Hayes, Miller etc. improve to the point that they need new contracts and all of a sudden there's nobody behind them when they become too expensive.

I am not a critic at all of the moves. Still like the Nash trade. Love the Yandle trade. Loved the St. Louis trade at the time but nobody could have foreseen how he went from Art Ross to 60 years old in 2 years. When I say we cant do it every year I am talking about going forward as in we cannot keep trading 1sts and 2nds year after year because youll run out of quality young players. We arent at that point yet, not even close.

"its easy to be a critic" what nonsense that is.

 

When those contracts become to big, then they get moved for picks, and the circle continues

 

Nash was the number 1 pick overall. So they did get a top 3 pick. Problem is he doesn't produce in the playoffs. I'm all for going for it each year. Just don't give away all your picks and prospects. When you do, you better get some back. You need to have a constant pipeline of young players to keep under the cap and keep competitive. To me Yandle isn't going to be the difference of winning or losing the cup. So keeping him for 1 more year to lose him and not potentially get back 2 high picks a good prospect is stupid. Makes no sense. I don't know if Nash can finally be the difference in a cup. However, at this point I'm not sure I would spend another year trying to figure it out.

 

Need to dump msl (given) and trade talbot (given) boyle so mac can be the 6th d man, Yandle for pieces we need tough scoring forward before he plays the year and loses the value of the 2.6m contract and we can't sign him as a free agent. Hags will depend how greedy he gets come contract time. Nash will be here as av has made clear already

 

I am 100% with you Al and Mess. We are out of control in here right now, very predictable based on the fact we lost in game 7 of the ECF....

Dump loved the trades, now is knocking them. We are dealing picks in the late 20's...not top 5 or 10 or even top 20 picks. YES you can get good players at 27...YES you want to have those picks if you could...but you also VERY EASILY can miss on pick 27 a lot easier than pick 10 or 12 or 6. AND you have to be in it to win it. Sometimes deals like that work, and most times they don't as only one team can win the cup.

Reality of the NHL and of sports really.

And Prod is right on it also...if you don't fall all the way to the bottom and get top 2 or 3 picks it is not easy to win titles.

We are real close, and now is the time to be smart and finish off the team. Deal Talbot for a pick and gritty forward if you can. Sub out Boyle for a lesser cap hit. Add a gritty top 9 R shot winger. Away we go from there.

 

I will also add I believe this is a great discussion, and good points can be made on both sides. Clearly I am on the side of smartly dealing picks to actually try and win a cup now. It is certainly a no doubter that at some point it will bite your team and cost you though. Just hope you have a cup or two by then, and you make some good later picks or other moves to help out...like signing a 1st rounder in Hayes.

All I will say is we are dealing picks in the mid to late 20's, so that make the loss less than if we were dealing top 10 or top 15 picks even. And second it is funny to me that dump is the one saying this when no one pushed harder for the Nash deal, and he loved the Yandle deal, and he was perfectly fine with the MSL deal when it happened. So I find his POV strange when those are the deals we gave up the 1st rounders in. Now it is awful? Seems weird to me, but to each their own.

 

AV & Glen should go to Boyle and inform him that he's not part of next year's plans ala Wade Redden. The guy is at the end of his career and may allow the Rangers to move him but there is no way he or MSL are going to get any better next year - physically impossible. I would take McIlrath or Allen over Boyle any day, whatever slight offensive dropoff that may occur will be offset by their physicality. I liked the Yandle trade and would have kept him over Staal but the reality of the situation is the Rangers can't afford him next year

 

I agree Mess, but being responsible and doing our due diligence Sather needs to at least look and talk, that's the right thing to do...even though very doubtful anything comes of it.

My opinion on Yandle is simple. He is a HUGE bargin as a 50 point dman for 2.6 mill next season. I keep him and use that huge cap edge he gives us. If we stink at the trade DL, flip him then. MUCH more likely let it play out, hope to win a cup, and deal with it next summer. That is how I play it with Yandle.

Yandle and Klein give us a big boost cap wise at 5.5 mill combined on the cap next season...that is crazy good. We should take advantage of that, not deal either one.