What player trait(s) are you willing to give up on for pick #23?

I was reading another thread where Rasta said

which got me thinking. You have to give up SOMETHING, we're drafting what is nominally the 23rd best rookie. To put that in perspective, if we drafted the 23rd best player in the draft, there would be TEN guys who are better, but still not good enough to make the 12-man rookie/soph team (yes, I know that doesn't exist any more). Put another way, we don't have a pick next year, we "need" to draft someone better than the 23rd best player in this draft.

So,
Do you give up Character, and draft Robert Upshaw?
Do you give up Shooting, and draft Hollis-Jefferson?
Do you give up Age, and draft Delon Wright?
Do you give up Toughness, and draft Wood?

Superman's not going to be there at pick 23. What do you give up? Here are some tentative generic categories (position specific abilities like rebounding and assisting are not included): (Pick ones that you don't think are important for your pick in THIS YEAR's draft)

Mental Traits:
*************
character
maturity
work ethic
toughness
intangibles
basketball IQ

Physical Traits: (Think NBA Combine)
**************
age
athleticism/jumping
size
quickness

Basketball Traits:
****************
shooting
ceiling/upside
defense

Other Traits:
************
nba ready
team fit
team need


Now, based based on your choice, who do you draft?
Alternate/Bonus: Which Category do you think is most/least important?

 

If we think LA comes back we give ceiling/upside. You can give up character because when a guy reaches the league it might click in his head. You can give up shooting because we have so much, especially with our PF off the bench being a 42% 3P shooter.

 

I draft Upshaw because his character flaws are...not to the level some people think. He actually takes blame for his shit unlike someone like Royce White, who blamed the Rockets because he was fat as fuck and lazy.

With that said, the items in bold are absolutely non-negotioable for my draftING of said player. Underlined is would love it, but not a deal breaker. Unedited - don't really care, shooting is one of the easier things to improve, etc.

The stuff you can't really teach is imperative - court vision, understanding, etc.

 

You can get away with lack of BB IQ if the player is 19 or 20.. if he's older its a deal breaker

 

Shooting. I can live without it as long as the player can defend his ass off. Besides, shooting can be developed.

 

I entirely agree with this on Upshaw. I've listened to him in interviews and the guy clearly had some addiction issues and to me he sounds very genuine that he is clean, learned from his mistakes, and fought his demons. He accepts responsibility. If he relapses, then it will have been a bad bet. I am rooting for him to succeed and would be happy with his selection.

If LA is gone, I don't worry about team fit or NBA ready. What you focus on is physical abilities and work ethic.

 

I would love to rebuild by drafting Upshaw and developing him and Meyers. Itd be kinda like Rasheed and Ben Wallace

 

Really not trying to hassle you, but who is the last 19/20 year old basketball moron who learned the game and became smart basketball wise?

I just don't think BBIQ is something you develop in the NBA, IMO it's mainly instincts from playing.

I'd say the one exception is players who just recently started playing the game but, as we saw with Bismack Biyombo, that doesn't relate all that well either. We will see how it goes for the Sixers and Embiid.

I ask, because, I'm willing to be persuaded on that one. BBIQ is just so tough, I really don't think you can get drafted without it.

I just can't think of a 19 year old who panned out when they were sign as a poor BBIQ player. I'm sure I'm forgetting obvious.

 

Idiot post of the day coming from me:

Upshaw could start for us day 1

 

Meyers Leonard... He played like an idiot the first 2 years... now he's a big part of our future. You can always learn more about the game, if you're willing. A hard work ethic can develop BB IQ, and playing time can help to improve instincts. I think Meyers is a perfect example of this.
Basically you can't draft a guy with a lack of BB IQ and a bad work ethic

 

Here is the interview with Upshaw I referenced above. It is the 5/21 interview.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mitch-in-the-morning-ondemand/id92355604?mt=2

 

if we're rebuilding then that's not dumb at all. The dude is a top 10 draft talent IMO, and he could develop into a dominant defensive center.
If we're keeping LMA and we're trying to contend then he shouldn't start

 

I wouldn't say he was an idiot, just really indecisive and not confident in himself, in fact, his draft profile states that his IQ is actually pretty high:


Good offensive awareness ... Talented passer with good court-vision ... Does a lot of damage in the post at this level ... Willing to wrestle for good position near the block ... Uses his agility well to get around the rim, and is a quality finisher due to his athleticism ... Becoming a better outside shooter, and is dangerous when left alone from 12-18 feet ... Nice touch from the free-throw line; shouldn't be a liability there in the future ... Sells contact well (he's a good flopper) ... Defends with his body more than his hands ... Protects the rim well on defense ... Blocks a lot of shots ... Smart help-defender ... Gets his hands on a lot of rebounds, and is aware enough to tip-out to teammates when he can't corral one himself ... Usually does a good job of finding somebody to box-out whenever a shot goes up ...

The bold is indicative of high BBIQ IMO.

I'd say will Barton is a more low IQ player. Reckless, unaware, almost too confident.

 

I still think he could start. 90% of centers suck nowadays and his defense should more readily translate. We don't necessarily need his offense. And with how many t3ams go small, it would be even less of an issue...uuuuntillll...

We play anyone in the playoffs with a remotely capable offensive center.. Dwight, Gasol, Cousins if he somehow made it..

Otherwise I'd be fine with him guarding Kanter, Bogut, DeAndre, even Duncan (because of age).

Mainly, it's more about how poor of a position offensively center is and his defensive impact, if it translated, would highly negate anything else. Cheaper Hibbert with more potential IMO, but keeping his head straight and relying on him obviously would be a big risk. But he has the talent and I'd argue with most pieces back, we would have the pieces around him to risk it, with LMA, Kaman, Leonard, Rolo. (I'm still in favor of Leonard starting at C though now that I think about it. His spacing is invaluable for Aldridge and Damian. If we could get another slasher somehow, that would be incredible.) 3pt shooting is winning games now, saw some analytics article about the shot now.

 

starting Upshaw would open up more minutes for Leonard while trading Batum would open up max cap space. We could pursue Draymond or Butler for max, or DeMarre Carroll/Middleton for $12M and then build a really strong bench.

 

Jermaine O'neal?

 

I don't know quite how to answer the question, so I'll work it out in reverse by ranking the traits I value in the order I value them (so whatever comes last will be the answer).
1. "Feel for the game"/"Basketball IQ"
2. Passing ability (this sort of follows from the above)
3. Defense
4. Rebounding
5. Character
6. Shooting
7. Height
8. Athleticism

I would've had shooting last in the past, but I understand that the game has changed.

HOWEVER: it's not really that simple. What feature you value also depends on the rest of your roster. If you have a great lockerroom or a dominant personality (like LeBron James) then you can stand a knucklehead (like JR Smith).

 

Delon wright please. Dude isn't even that old. And crafty pgs can play until their late thirties

 

Player age is really a non factor IMHO. If the players good he's still gonna give you 10+ years of quality basketball.

 

That's not the complaint. The complaint is that the stats are misleading. Of course you're going to put up better stats if you're older than your peers by an average of a couple of years, particularly at that age. So Delon Wright's stats looks really good, much better than some 19 year old, but the fair comparison is that 19 year old to Wright's stats when he was 19.