Injuries and the Association

Discussion in 'Chicago Bulls' started by _GB, Jun 6, 2015.

  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Worked great.
     
  2. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    You won't have to wait long. There isn't one. The message was sent.

    (see, i answer the questions you ask. maybe you can get to work on the dozen or so i've asked you that you have decided to shrink away from)

    If you think of the NBA from a business perspective, they have to fine the Spurs for what they did. If all teams behaved like the Spurs, the regular season would become quite the sham.
     
  3. _GB

    _GB Bulls Fan Staff Member Moderator

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    Then explain this:

    http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer...devices-to-monitor-players-while-on-the-court
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I saw the Warriors play the Knicks in NYC.

    Kerr played Curry and Thompson with a 38 point lead.

    upload_2015-6-8_9-10-43.png
     
  5. _GB

    _GB Bulls Fan Staff Member Moderator

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    So?
     
  6. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    So all this spin about playing time and risk is bullshit.'

    As is pointing to Kerr as someone doing things somehow right.
     
  7. _GB

    _GB Bulls Fan Staff Member Moderator

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    Not according to the pros who actually have skin in the game.
     
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    According to the spinmeisters for the Bulls organization.

    The guys who actually have skin in the game played their players more minutes than Thibs did. This has been shown in these threads over and over again.
     
  9. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    There is a new commish that supposedly will be a bit more lenient on such matters.

    That being said, if its becomes standard practice to throw NBA games to rest players, the commish will have to step in.

    Its not necessarily a bad idea to reduce fatigue for the individual franchise. The problem will arise if a team does this 10 times in a season. Or 20. Or 30. Or 40.

    The commish will have to step in and solve this problem. Obviously throwing contests isn't a long term solution. Owners probably like having 82 games though and 8 preseason games though!

    The Atlanta Hawks also were a progressive team when it came to minutes management this season. They got swept by Lebron in the playoffs with Korver going down to injury and Milsap being gimpy.

    The Bulls used the Jen Swanson minutes restrictions. Noah was still gimpy and Rose was average. Butler led the league in MPG and played great. Gasol wasn't given the restrictions by Swanson and was hurt in the playoffs, although he did make the all-star team and the all-NBA 2nd team for his strong play in the regular season.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2015
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  10. _GB

    _GB Bulls Fan Staff Member Moderator

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    You see K4E, you'd be taken more seriously if you showed some intellectual honesty, instead of constantly spouting half truths and misdirections when the narrative doesn't fit your narrow worldview.


    Minutes restrictions are a risk management exercise. The data shows higher risk of certain types of injury under certain circumstances, and less under others. Automatically cutting a players minutes doesn't make him healthier or a better basketball player or even a better basketball team. It just cuts the likelihood of certain outcomes. The league response to the data has been to lower player minutes. But it doesn't change individual stories; Noah has been gimpy and a shell of himself for a while now, and Rose still has missed a lot of playing time and has had two surgeries on his knees.

    Hang on - teams and the association itself are going to keep at it. This isn't going away.

    See above.
     
  11. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Oh, really? K4E is spot on.

    http://chicago.suntimes.com/basketb...position-breakdowns-centers-joakim-noah-moved

    Bulls position breakdowns: Centers and why Joakim Noah could be moved

    Taj Gibson – If there’s not a market on Noah, Gibson is Plan B on that trade list, especially with the Bulls up against the cap and needing to fill a wing spot, as well as find a back-up point guard. There are several with the Bulls that felt Gibson’s season was hurt by all the restrictions in practice thrown on him by director of sports performance Jen Swanson, as he was often injured under her watch.
     
  12. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't really dispute that reducing minutes might lead to healthier players come playoff time. It makes intuitive sense. Intuition is often wrong though, which is why its smart to rely on research for such matters. That's typically how the medical community works.

    I'm just asking you to provide some research (anything) saying what the threshold is. Was Thibs on the wrong side of it? Is Jen Swanson doing things correctly? Are back to backs bad? How bad? Are 82 games too many? What is the right number? Are the Warriors in the Finals due to their "smart" mintues management or do they have the more talented team? Why didn't it work for the Hawks? Why didn't the Jen Swanson approach really work for the Bulls? How important is any of this stuff vs. stuff that we know is important about a coach like Xs and Os, managing a locker room, getting the most out of the players you are given and working with nearly any roster to consistently win NBA basketball games?

    You see, you act very sure of yourself. But I don't think you know what the fuck you're talking about. Provide evidence that you do. (i don't think you can)

    The incentives in the league are all out of whack if playing professional basketball players millions of dollars to try hard to win the supposedly competitive regular season contests is the wrong thing to do. Something is wrong if the "smart" thing to do is to basically throw basketball games.

    And if you don't take me seriously, well, I'm just some guy posting on a message board so I don't expect anything or really care. You're the guy that has been dead wrong about Paxson from day one, so I certainly don't take you seriously. (sorry)

    If you can find some definitive research saying that reducing minutes leads to better playoff outcomes and what they should be reduced to, I would appreciate it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2015
  13. _GB

    _GB Bulls Fan Staff Member Moderator

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    Another flip-flop.

    LOL

    I know you understand this stuff, and you know the answers to your questions too.

    Have a nice day, K4E. :smack:
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2015
  14. _GB

    _GB Bulls Fan Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes, and Noah is going to lead the league in scoring next season.
     
  15. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    I honestly don't know the answers to those questions. I would love to see some research to help me come to a more informed opinion.

    Can you definitively say that Jimmy Butler was played too many minutes per game this season? What is the right number? Was Gasol played too many? If so, why did Jen only have the restrictions on DRose and Noah?

    And, really, what is the point of having the NBA regular season anymore period, if this is the new accepted mindset? The commish needs to step in and set things right, if winning the games is considered to be bad form and the smart move is to tank games.

    The worst teams in the league tank games and now the better teams are considered smart for tanking games as well. That's no gouda!
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2015
  16. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Wow, no flip flop that I can see.

    Obviously if you don't play the players any minutes at all, they won't get injured playing. He's conceded that.
     
  17. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    You're just as right about that as... well, everything else ;)
     
  18. _GB

    _GB Bulls Fan Staff Member Moderator

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    Wilbon, from January 2015:

    http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/stor...s-evolve-nba-health-issues-serious-contenders
     
  19. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Spurs: exit 1st round
    Hawks: exit 2nd round

    Rest works!
     
  20. _GB

    _GB Bulls Fan Staff Member Moderator

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