Training camp is going to be a war

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Natebishop3, Jul 13, 2015.

  1. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages:
    67,845
    Likes Received:
    66,602
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I hope CJ is the 6 man and I don't want him alongside Dame anymore than possible. We have longer, taller, defensive guys who can play the 2..Henderson is way better next to Dame than CJ. We added a lot of defenders with this roster and I expect a lot of offensive rebounds and putbacks, transition buckets..we have guys who can finish a fast break for a change and more alley oops and pick and roll schemes. Dame, CJ, Crabbe, Leonard, Henderson (from the corner only)and Connaughton can shoot the deep ball
     
  2. Wizard Mentor

    Wizard Mentor Wizard Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    14,438
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Master of Xen Foro
    Location:
    La Grande, OR
    Maybe. It's hard to imagine he and Dame and CJ starting duo. OTOH,

    Dame: 6' 3" great offense, mediocre defense
    CJ: 6' 4" (according to wiki) good offense, pretty good defense, from a very small school

    reminds me of

    Mr X: 6' 1" great offense, mediocre defense
    Mr Y: 6' 3" good offense, very good defense, from a very small school

    Mr X and Mr Y won championships together, and are both in the hall of fame.

    So, while it isn't common, it is doable. I know some of you are going to say that CJ is no Mr. Y, but neither was Mr. Y. He was the 18th draft pick from a small school. Mr Y. averaged 9.4 and 11.8 PPG his first 2 years, and didn't average 18 or more until his 6th year, and only average 20 or more 3 years of his 14 years with a career average of 16.1 PPG.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  3. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    34,276
    Likes Received:
    43,615
    Trophy Points:
    113
    But the real question is, would CJ pass on Carmelo?
     
  4. LizardKing

    LizardKing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I don't know who told you CJ plays good D, but they were lying. He and Dame both really struggle on the pick and roll. I love the idea of starting a freaking huge line up with CJ anchoring the scoring off the bench. We could start Aminu at the 3, and any combo of Davis/Plumlee/Kaman that can get points up front. Kaman has the best post moves, but the Plumlee Lillard alley-oop connection is going to be real. Then with one sub we shift Aminu to the 4, get Kaman off the court as quickly as possible and then run hard with the second unit. We have a lot of young athletes with a lot of different skillsets so it's tempting to play small all the time, but I think if we start small were gonna get run out of the building half the time. Best turn it into a wrestling match, keep it close and then let Dame and CJ go for it in the 4th quarter.
     
    Nikolokolus likes this.
  5. Wizard Mentor

    Wizard Mentor Wizard Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    14,438
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Master of Xen Foro
    Location:
    La Grande, OR
    sniff, sniff. I've been lied to. Hopefully, you are wrong, but it's not obvious that you are.

    One of the problems with the CJ/Dame starting lineup is that I truly think it best to have one in the game at all time.
     
  6. LizardKing

    LizardKing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I think for 5 minute spurts it could be dynamic. I think for 10 minute spurts it could be disastrous.
     
    Nikolokolus likes this.
  7. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    30,704
    Likes Received:
    6,198
    Trophy Points:
    113
    One minor niggle, Damian's defense isn't mediocre, it's bad - like "6 points per 100 possessions worse" kind of bad. Pairing him with a smallish shooting guard who is just OK on defense isn't a great idea. That's my only point I was trying to make when I replied to Mags comment above - the team needs a guy on the wing who compliments Damian IMO and helps cover up some of his deficiencies (and hopefully Dame improves at that end of the court).
     
    Wizard Mentor likes this.
  8. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    34,276
    Likes Received:
    43,615
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not to mention that "Mr. X" also wasn't mediocre defensively--he was actually quite good. For his career, his DWS is only 1.7 lower than his OWS. Statistically, he was much better defensively than Mr. Y was.
     
    Wizard Mentor likes this.
  9. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    62,945
    Likes Received:
    22,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    actor
    Location:
    New York
    CJ is good at steals. Probably our best last season.
     
  10. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    34,276
    Likes Received:
    43,615
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
     
    LizardKing likes this.
  11. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers RipCity

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Messages:
    19,770
    Likes Received:
    16,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    PDX
    Agree 100%. CJ is 6th man material.
     
  12. LizardKing

    LizardKing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I think Dame's D is getting a lot better, he blocks a high percentage of jump shots and overall he does a good job of contesting anything near him but man, does he struggle on the pick and roll. One more summer with the Glove ought to do it
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  13. BlazerCaravan

    BlazerCaravan Hug a Bigot... to Death

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    28,071
    Likes Received:
    10,384
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ah, but, his offense is better than his defense is bad. The ORtg - DRtg differential is +5.1 when he was on the court, and +2.2 when he was off the court, for an overall benefit of +2.9.

    Also, how much of his on/off court spread is due to backup point guards generally sucking across the league, and everyone's offense looking worse while the starting point guard is gone?
     
  14. Wizard Mentor

    Wizard Mentor Wizard Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    14,438
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Master of Xen Foro
    Location:
    La Grande, OR
    I'll make a general reply to the replies above, not necessarily specific to you, Nik.

    I think there is temptation to compare CJ/Dame to Mr X/Mr Y when the latter were in their primes. CJ and Dames stories are not close to being written. A typical NBA player's peak is at around 29 year old. Dame just turned 24, CJ will turn 24 in 2 more months.

    So the question isn't what are they, but what will they become. I'm an admitted Blazer homer so I think/hope that they fully realize their potentials which in the same neighborhood (maybe even higher!) than Mr. X and Mr. Y.
     
    magnifier661 likes this.
  15. BlazerCaravan

    BlazerCaravan Hug a Bigot... to Death

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    28,071
    Likes Received:
    10,384
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Using the same stat: http://www.82games.com/1415/14POR4.HTM CJ is a good defender (101.1 on, 105.8 off).
     
  16. LizardKing

    LizardKing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Man, screw the stats., use your eyes. CJ runs into screens like they're Goddamn magnets. He and Dame both have a lot of potential to improve and I think they will. Also, Pat Connaughton might just seal the show this year. I have zero qualms about starting him and playing him 20-25. Dude plays the right way
     
  17. BlazerCaravan

    BlazerCaravan Hug a Bigot... to Death

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    28,071
    Likes Received:
    10,384
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I guess opposing SGs coincidentally shoot 43.5% when he's in the game.
     
  18. LizardKing

    LizardKing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    18
    That is indeed part of my "screw the stats" opinion. Also that number sounds overwhelmingly average, is that supposed to be good or bad?
     
  19. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    59,328
    Likes Received:
    5,588
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Cracking fools in the skull
    Location:
    Lancaster, California
    We must find another scorer. We don't have him right now.
     
  20. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    59,328
    Likes Received:
    5,588
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Cracking fools in the skull
    Location:
    Lancaster, California
    Are we talking about Dumars and Thomas?
     

Share This Page