<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Dec 29 2006, 01:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No, I said you were talking out of your ass because some of your points were just random, and not valid at all.</div>Why are they not valid? Because Mr. CB4AllStar doesn't agree with them? That's hogwash (haha yes I said hogwash). All of the points I brought up were valid with explanation. My initial comment about Hinrich being better off the dribble was somewhat vague at first but then I explained it and made it valid.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yankshater213 @ Dec 29 2006, 02:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Holy jesus I know Hinrich is the PG. He can do what he wants but he doesn't because he understands that there are better scorers than him on the floor, which is why I'm saying his scoring average is lower (in relation to Ford's)I also think its funny that you're making the 1 ppg difference out to be so much bigger than it actually is. You're talking like these two guys are on completely different levels of play.</div>I was just saying that Hinrich is not the better scorer in my opinion. IMO, I think is is a tie scoring wise, but TJ is clearly the better defender. You're right, Hinrich is the better defender here, but hey; I'd rather have the guy who does a better job offensively. That's what's really important for a pg.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Dec 29 2006, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I was just saying that Hinrich is not the better scorer in my opinion. IMO, I think is is a tie scoring wise, but TJ is clearly the better defender. You're right, Hinrich is the better defender here, but hey; I'd rather have the guy who does a better job offensively. That's what's really important for a pg.</div>I don't see how you can argue what's more important for a specific position, offense or defense, except for maybe the center position as defense. The importance on different teams for different needs at each position depends on who their best offensive players are. You'd rather have Ford, who is a good offensive player, so that means you're content with scoring 97 points a game and giving up 100 a game, instead of scoring a point less a game with added defense with Hinrich?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yankshater213 @ Dec 29 2006, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't see how you can argue what's more important for a specific position, offense or defense, except for maybe the center position as defense. The importance on different teams for different needs at each position depends on who their best offensive players are. You'd rather have Ford, who is a good offensive player, so that means you're content with scoring 97 points a game and giving up 100 a game, instead of scoring a point less a game with added defense with Hinrich?</div>I think Ford creates more than only 1 point more of offense than Hinrich...Ford is the better passer. You are only adding in his 1 ppg difference in scoring in this equation..?????^^^^^ lol...
Its all what ifs, buddy. If Hinrich was in that offense his stats would be completely different as well. The defense of the Raptors would improve with Hinrich as their PG instead of Ford, but would the offense really take a hit? Whos to say that Hinrich's playmaking abilities wouldn't work in Toronto. I've said it before and said it again, but valo and I agree and have brought up completely valid points as to who the better point guard is. You're obviously going to disagree because your a Raptors fan, and even though you do bring up some good points about TJ, they're exaggerated because he's your point guard on your team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yankshater213 @ Dec 29 2006, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Its all what ifs, buddy. If Hinrich was in that offense his stats would be completely different as well. The defense of the Raptors would improve with Hinrich as their PG instead of Ford, but would the offense really take a hit? Whos to say that Hinrich's playmaking abilities wouldn't work in Toronto. I've said it before and said it again, but valo and I agree and have brought up completely valid points as to who the better point guard is. You're obviously going to disagree because your a Raptors fan, and even though you do bring up some good points about TJ, they're exaggerated because he's your point guard on your team.</div>Well, Ford is obviously the better playmaker, and Hinrich would not fit in in our running style offense...We'd by better off with Ford. I can live with him not bringing great defense if his offense is as good as it is..Not really...You said that Hinrich has the quickest first step. I disagree with that, along with what you said about Hinrich being better in the fast break. Those are not valid points at all.
I did not say Hinrich had the quickest first step, I said he had one of the best first steps, that has little to do with quickness, I've explained that like 3-4 times and you still have yet to grasp it. And Hinrich is a very good guy on the fast break, he hasn't had the chance to run it much in Chicago because of the other players around him, but if you watched him at all at Kansas he was a great leader for a pretty uptempo offense leading them to the Final Four twice and the Championship game one of those times (lost to Melo and Cuse). Obviously you're not going to budge on this because you're a homer Raptors fan no matter what I bring up, so to each his own.EDIT: Just to add one more thing:http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=...?gid=2006120804Chicago 93, Toronto 90TJ Ford: 4-11 FGs, 12 points, 3 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 turnovers, 1 steal, 4 foulsKirk Hinrich: 6-12 FGs, 1-2 3s, 13 points, 2 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 turnovers, 2 steals, 1 foul
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yankshater213 @ Dec 29 2006, 02:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I did not say Hinrich had the quickest first step, I said he had one of the best first steps, that has little to do with quickness, I've explained that like 3-4 times and you still have yet to grasp it. And Hinrich is a very good guy on the fast break, he hasn't had the chance to run it much in Chicago because of the other players around him, but if you watched him at all at Kansas he was a great leader for a pretty uptempo offense leading them to the Final Four twice and the Championship game one of those times (lost to Melo and Cuse). Obviously you're not going to budge on this because you're a homer Raptors fan no matter what I bring up, so to each his own.EDIT: Just to add one more thing:http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=...?gid=2006120804Chicago 93, Toronto 90TJ Ford: 4-11 FGs, 12 points, 3 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 turnovers, 1 steal, 4 foulsKirk Hinrich: 6-12 FGs, 1-2 3s, 13 points, 2 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 turnovers, 2 steals, 1 foul</div>I'm willing to bet that TJ Ford has the quicker first step. He is so explosive off the dribble. No one can stop him when he's determined to get inside. Also, Ford is one of the best in the league at running the fast break. He is so quick, so that works to his advantage, and he has excellent vision on the break. He is BETTER than Hinrich running the break, believe me.And, maybe I'm missing your point. What do those stats have to do with anything? Anyway, the Bulls and Raps play today, so I'll get another look at Hinrich. Also, it will be interesting to see the matchup between the two.
Lol are you retarded? I told you like 5 times now TJ Ford has a quicker first step. TJ FORD HAS A QUICKER FIRST STEP I KNOW. You don't need to try and prove me wrong on something we agree on. One of the best in the league at running the fast break? He's hardly top ten if that at running the fast break, thats overrating him just a bit. My point with the stats was basically to show how TJ shoots when paired with a pretty decent defender. He also had some trouble defending Hinrich as he shot pretty well, but I didn't watch the game I'm going by what I see, so you never know.
The Bulls do not play in a half court system. The Bulls are not miami, they have no low post presence, they like to run the ball and get into the open court, so for the ones who keep saying the Bulls are in a half court system offense has prolly never watched a Bulls game. Kirk Hinrich does the little things that most PG never do. He has to guard some of the best players in the NBA and he does a good job on them. Heres a list of players he guards, kobe, Carter, T-mac, Wade, Chris Paul, AI, pierce the list goes on. He also does a very good job on them. He practically took wade out of the series last year in the playoffs. Wade was a non-factor throughout that series. He held Kobe to 6-19 a few games ago. Who does TJ Ford guard??? Kirk's been on the olympic team, which shows you that people obviously respect what he can do. He doesn't take risks, and lose the ball constantly. He isnt trying to impress people with his skills and make flashy passes, he simply tries to win the game and take care of the ball.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SerbBojo @ Dec 29 2006, 05:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Bulls do not play in a half court system. The Bulls are not miami, they have no low post presence, they like to run the ball and get into the open court, so for the ones who keep saying the Bulls are in a half court system offense has prolly never watched a Bulls game.</div>I have watched the Bulls in four seperate games so far this year, and none of the four of those games did it look like the Bulls were playing fast break basketball. I watched them play the Lakers the second time they played, Spurs, Hornets and Magic and all four games they tried to slow down the game and play ball in the half court. All four games they tried to run alot less than the other team tried to run.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yankshater213 @ Dec 29 2006, 03:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lol are you retarded? I told you like 5 times now TJ Ford has a quicker first step. TJ FORD HAS A QUICKER FIRST STEP I KNOW. You don't need to try and prove me wrong on something we agree on. One of the best in the league at running the fast break? He's hardly top ten if that at running the fast break, thats overrating him just a bit. My point with the stats was basically to show how TJ shoots when paired with a pretty decent defender. He also had some trouble defending Hinrich as he shot pretty well, but I didn't watch the game I'm going by what I see, so you never know.</div>Ha, that's funny because you said that Kirk had the quicker first step in one of your earlier posts. I'll edit this post, and attach that quote on just to prove it to you. That's what I mean by saying your posts arent valid. You say all these dumb points, and then you go back on your word after you're proved wrong. I would definately say TJ is top 10 in the League at running the break. His quickness definately comes to his advantage on the break, and his court vision is uncanny when he's running.That was one game...you can't prove that TJ doesn't have good games against good defenders if you only mention one freaking game. He went 8-15 on Kidd on opening night, and Kidd is arguably the best pg defender in the League...TJ can get by anyone...It just depends if his jumper is on or not if he will have a breakout game...I don't think a players shooting percentages dictate the defense either. Maybe he was just cold that night???<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yankshater213 @ Dec 29 2006, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I also never said TJ wasn't quicker. I said Hinrich is better off the first dribble, meaning his first step is better, and is more creative off of the dribble, nothing abuot quickness.</div>Lol, here's that quote. Way to go back on your argument there, bud.
Wow do you know how to read? I'll break it down for you. Before I said that, you said something about how Ford was much quicker than Hinrich, when I hadn't even brought quickness into the equation at that point in time. I never said anything about Ford not being quicker, hence why I said "I also never said TJ wasn't quicker". I said that because you brought up the quickness argument against me whereas I hadn't even brought quickness in.I said something about him being better off the dribble, and then you brought up quickness, I never had said anything about quickness, so I don't get your logic of me going back on my word. I dare you to find one place where I said "Kirk Hinrich has a quicker first step"Your move, buddy.Edit: Its completely possibly to be good off the dribble and not very quick. See: Paul Pierce
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yankshater213 @ Dec 30 2006, 02:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wow do you know how to read? I'll break it down for you. Before I said that, you said something about how Ford was much quicker than Hinrich, when I hadn't even brought quickness into the equation at that point in time. I never said anything about Ford not being quicker, hence why I said "I also never said TJ wasn't quicker". I said that because you brought up the quickness argument against me whereas I hadn't even brought quickness in.I said something about him being better off the dribble, and then you brought up quickness, I never had said anything about quickness, so I don't get your logic of me going back on my word. I dare you to find one place where I said "Kirk Hinrich has a quicker first step"Your move, buddy.Edit: Its completely possibly to be good off the dribble and not very quick. See: Paul Pierce</div>Dude, what are you even talking about. First you say that Kirk Hinrich has the quicker first step, and now you're saying that you never said that. I'm confused...
The more you argue this the more retarded you're making yourself look. The point is that I never once said Hinrich was quicker than Ford, and you have yet to find a place that I have said that, so keep saying that I did, just making yourself look stupider. Both me and Valo, one of the smartest posters on BBW, agree that Hinrich is a better point guard, seems you and Raptor fan are the only ones that think he is better, which is no surprise to me because you're a homer. So just keep bringing up whatever you want, you're making yourself look like a stubborn f*cking idiot going back on things I said and trying to contort them. You're only embarassing yourself.
I would pick Hinrich. He could score 20ppg but the Bulls have so many scorers that he is just a 4th option
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yankshater213 @ Dec 30 2006, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The more you argue this the more retarded you're making yourself look. The point is that I never once said Hinrich was quicker than Ford, and you have yet to find a place that I have said that, so keep saying that I did, just making yourself look stupider. Both me and Valo, one of the smartest posters on BBW, agree that Hinrich is a better point guard, seems you and Raptor fan are the only ones that think he is better, which is no surprise to me because you're a homer. So just keep bringing up whatever you want, you're making yourself look like a stubborn f*cking idiot going back on things I said and trying to contort them. You're only embarassing yourself.</div>I never said that you did. You don't get my point. First you said that Hinrich had the quicker first step, and then you went back on that comment. Yeah, so what. TJ Ford is my 2nd favourite player. Of course I'm going to pick him...Watch your mouth.
he didnt say he was quicker on the first step he said IN THE QUOTE that he is better of the first dribble. He makes a good point saying that paul pierce is not very quick and he is still extremely effective off the first DRIBBLE. No matter what you say about ford's offense and how he can blow by ANYONE(which if he did he'd be avging 20+ now......especially with bosh out for some time) kirk is extremely close if not better offensively. But the determining factor is that ford is a liability on defense because of his size and is just not a good defender. Hinrich is a stubborn defender and is almost always covering the opposite team's best guard.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yankshater213 @ Dec 30 2006, 04:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Please, CB4, I beg you to go find where I said that Kirk Hinrich was quicker.</div>What is wrong with you man? I just warned you for calling me a "f*cking idiot". Stop flaming everyone. I never said that you said that Hinrich was quicker.In one of your original posts you said that Hinrich had the quicker first step, and now you are admitting that Ford had the quicker first step. I already showed you the quote.
