Predict first player to get traded

I am not giving up on a da*n thing. I am not even saying I am down on the team. I think I am just speaking the truth here.

I respectfully disagree with Prod. Those moves, with maybe the exception if the MSL trade as I said, were not good moves. I was 100% on board when they were made so I am not knocking anyone at all, just speaking honestly that as we sit here now those were bad moves.

Doesn't mean the world is over or the Rangers are done for and have no shot this season, just means we have to work hard to dig out of the hole some of these questionable moves left us in. I believe we can do it, but I do think we need to make a move to make it happen.

NO SHOT Yandle and Staal are both here next season, so make a move. I think Hayes could be a guy to go.

I also think it is hard to argue the Yandle deal, and the decision to add Boyle over Stralman, and signing Glass for a ridiculous 3 years were good moves. AGAIN I supported every single one of those moves, so I "own" them as well, but the truth is the truth.

 

Here are my "issues" Prod.

MSL would only come here...did we need to give Cally AND a 1st? To me this is the "best" of these moves, but still a question mark.

Did we need to give DuClair AND a 1st for Yandle? Seems like a lot to me. And like you said this move made even less sense after they resigned Staal. If Staal wasn't here I am with you, but one has to be gone. If Yandle is the odd man out, do we get a DuClair type and 1st for him?

Boyle over Stralman. Not sure how this can even be a debate. At the time it was a toss up, but I don't think that is a to win now we took Boyle over Stralman move. That was a bad decision.

Here is my main point...you KNOW I was 100% in to go for it Prod, so I am not saying I have an issue with the mindset...I am saying the players we decided to go for it with turned out to be the wrong players and the wrong decisions. Again I own it as much as any fan does, so I was 1000000% wrong on these moves at the time, but as we sit here today to me it is hard to argue they were good moves. My guess is with DuClair and a 1st being dangled we could have gotten other win now players outside of Yandle. He turned out to be the wrong target...double so when you have Staal resigned.

Is what it is. We are where we are. I still 100% believe in this team and believe we will right the ship and still be a big player this season, I just think we need a little shakeup to make it happen and awaken and refocus the team.

 

It is hindsight...which is why I said I was 10000000% on board and I 1000000000000% own it and I was 10000000000000% wrong. Freely can admit that.

Not trying to say I liked the deals at the time, then knock everyone who supported the deals....I will leave that to someone else on this board...who BTW you didn't say one word to when he posted a lot of this stuff....except he acted like we were all idiots for wanting these deals done even though he was 1000000% on board like pretty much everyone else in here.

BUT as usual I wouldn't expect anything different from you 31...LOL.

The mindset was 100% spot on. The players we actually focused on and brought here, for what we gave up and what we had in place, were the wrong players. That seems pretty clear to me, and I was 1000000% wrong at the time the big deals were done (we all hated the Glass signing from day one).

 

MSL/Cally you can live with as I said. Even though MSL would only come here, he did help us get to the SCF and no shot I want Cally at a 6 mill AAV.

The Yandle deal is a flat-out terrible deal. That couldn't be any clearer.

Boyle over Stralman is a flat-out terrible decision. Neither of those guys is more win now than the other, so that was just a bad decision. All there is to it.

The Hags deal is what it is. Not close to the same level as Yandle and Stralman, but we didn't get anything that will help this team in the near future. A deal we had to make for sure, but not a help this year at all. I don't really knock this one, made the best of the situation, but certainly didn't help us today or tomorrow that's for sure.

And based on comments at the time, Sather may have misplayed his hand on Talbot. This is speculation though, who really knows.

 

What is the rationale for saying they are bad moves? That we haven't won the cup in the year since they've been made? I think there are very good reasons as to why Yandle and Stralman were not only not bad moves, but good moves.

Yandle is the best offensive and puck moving defenseman we've had since the 05 lockout and it's not even close. He makes so many subtle plays that no other Ranger could make if their lives depended on it. Take the play on McIlrath's goal. He grabs the puck under pressure on his back hand after a face off win, brings it to his passing side, eludes a defenseman with a nice fake, moves the puck to center ice and puts it on a tee for McIlrath who drives it home. Nobody else makes that play. He's been doing stuff like that since we got him but all anyone wants to talk about is his play in his own zone. No he's not great there, but he wasn't brought here to do that. We have McDonagh, Staal, Girardi who are supposed to play that type of game. Not to mention that Yandle-McIlrath have been far and away the team's best pairing for a good few weeks now. Keeping those two together for the next few years should be a priority.

Regarding what we gave up to get him...our number 2 winger prospect (behind Buch), who has documented effort and character concerns, and a 1st. The first hurts, but don't forget, we got him for HALF PRICE CAP HIT. That was absolutely huge. It gave a very clear sign that this year and last year are go-for-it years. Last year if our top 3 defenseman didn't ALL get hurt (not 1, not 2, but all 3) in the playoffs and require surgery who knows where we are now. And we still have this year to go. Yandle at 2.6m leaves space for another add towards the deadline that otherwise wouldnt have been possible. No way he's here for 2.6m without that first going the other way. And I want to see him signed. Good deal there in my opinion.

Stralman...it's been beaten to death but it came down to term. McDonagh, Girardi, Staal, Klein all factored into the long-term plans. Stralman could be here if he wanted to be, but he wanted term. It's HUGE that Boyle's 4.5 hit is coming off the books after this year. Imagine if we still had Stralman's contract, and that contract would be the difference in not being able to afford a guy like Kreider this offseason? His disappointing year aside, there would be a meltdown here that we kept Anton freaking Stralman over a kid like Kreider. Stralman added nothing that we didn't already have on our defensive core. Klein plays the same type of game, on the same side, for 1.5 million cheaper. He was a decent player, but he was not physical, not offensively gifted, redundant to what we already had, and wanted term we couldn't afford to give him. And he's NEVER been the top guy on his pairing. No issue letting him walk whatsoever.

Boyle was brought here because Richards had been bought out and there was nobody on the roster who could play the PP point. Nobody. We grabbed Boyle because he was the only guy worth a damn who would sign for only 2 years. That move unfortunately hasn't worked out. He was hurt early and often, never hit is stride, and Yandle made him not needed. But I feel very good with the right-side D being Girardi-McIlrath-Klein going forward, and the extra 1.5 million dollars Stralman would have cost is in no way, shape or form, worth it.

Reasonable people can disagree, but I just don't see how someone can look at all the facts and call them "bad moves." You can say in hindsight you probably wouldnt have done it, but that doesnt make it a bad move. A bad move is signing Tanner Glass to 3 years.

Either way, the focus should now be on what can be done going forward. We still need a top 6 forward like Ive been saying since the damn draft, and we need Staal and Girardi (who again, are both coming off lower body surgeries) to wake up. I'm still confident they will.

 

I think you summed it up Prod. In hindsight you wouldn't make the Yandle deal...not when Staal is here long term. To me I think that was a bad move given all the facts on the table AND the fact that Yandle is not a difference maker. Reality is it makes very little sense to add a Yandle as a 3rd pair LD. If Staal wasn't resigned...yes 100% makes sense. With Staal here it makes very little sense.

Boyle over Stralman is also a bad move. Again this wasn't a win now move, to me Boyle or Stralman same deal in terms of who is better to win now. This is a bad decision as we sit here today. Again to me it is just reality. We can agree to disagree there Prod.

And 31...you are 10000000000000% right. Things change. Circumstances change. Seeing Yandle play here...he is not a difference maker. It does not make sense to add him when you have your top two LD locked up for YEARS. Same goes with Boyle over Stralman. That was a bad decision for the reasons I laid out. That wasn't a win now move, that was a choice of Boyle over Stralman.

Like I said....I was 1000000000% wrong. I liked the moves when they were made. As circumstances have changed, Staal resigned, Yandle not a difference maker, Boyle falling apart, Stralman taking off, they are not good moves today. Again just being honest.

We can call it hindsight, we can call it second guessing, we can call it whatever we want to call it...still doesn't change the fact that as we sit here today they have not worked out and were not good moves.

Again I own that. I was wrong. Not calling anyone an idiot or acting like I didn't support these moves, I did and I was wrong...period. We brought the wrong player in when we added Yandle. No doubt we could have gotten something really good with DuClair and a 1st as the offer. With Staal here that was a dumb move. Again it is what it is.

 

And to be clear again, I am NOT giving up on this season at all. WAY too much hockey left to play. I 100% believe we will turn it around and be a player this season, so that isn't my point at all. No give up or punting after 35 games.

I do however believe we need to make some tweaks here to get the ship righted again. That I believe for sure.

But I 100% believe this team can still get it done this season. I am fully on board there. No one should give up anything with over 1/2 a season left. This team will turn it around I believe...my opinion on that has not changed.

 

I don't think that's what I'm saying...I still pull the trigger on Yandle. I think he is a difference maker. We just need the defensive guys to uphold their end of the bargain. I'm saying Staal's deal is now bad, but I'm hoping Gorton finds a way to get out of it. Even if he doesnt and Yandle walks, if we have 2 playoff runs with Yandle at 2.6m and STILL can't get it done, that's not a reflection on the trade. It's a reflection on the guys that are here.

 

I do not think Yandle is a difference maker, we disagree there. He looks like a decent 2nd pair LD...not a difference maker. And yeah with Staal here he is not needed...or at least one is not needed. I believe we all agree that Staal would be the guy we'd move, but not sure that is doable given the NTC.

I also wonder if they will just let Yandle play out and walk for nothing this summer as you suggest. They have hinted they would do that and this isn't Cally or Zucc or Staal, but I really wonder if they would risk that.

We'll see I guess...unless they can move Staal, which we all agree would be ideal.

Edit to add I do think at least on some level that would be a reflection on the trade Prod. Not a direct line we didn't win so trade is bad, but certainly on some level us not winning in his 2 years here is a reflection on the trade given that we gave up DuClair and a 1st for him.

 

For Staal to move, he needs to waive the NTC. The only reason I'd ever see him waiving is to play with his brothers. Otherwise why would he leave? I'm hoping (praying) some team out there plans on having a Staal reunion next year. Come on Toronto you know you want them...

 

Have to agree with Prodigy on Yandle, that while he hasn't been great, you 100% had to make that move last year. And giving up Duclair and a late late 1st was not too much for someone adding that missing element they clearly don't have. Has he made some egrigious TO's that make you cringe, yes, but that's what you live with his type. And at a 2.6 cap hit it's even more a must deal. They definately should look to bring him back, otherwise who do have going forward thats a puck mover/playmaker of his type?Skjei? He will be but solid isn't on Yandle's O level. It's Staal/Girardi and even some degree RMc who are hampering things..twofold with the deals they have as well. I said it when Girardi was re-signed but many here scoffed at me.

 

Respect your opinions on the Yandle deal, but to me it has clearly not worked out. And now as we stare at Yandle being an RFA this summer, and no shot we can have him and Staal here, it looks bleak on that deal working out.

We'll see though...hopefully things will get better with Yandle here and we can somehow get Staal to agree to be moved. I know you are a huge crazy Yandle fan 71, but real is real and he is not a difference maker IMO. And no shot we can have Staal and Yandle here, so not even worth discussing.

 

Now McDonagh is obviously worth this contract, but Girardi is someone i though should've been allowed to walk and been replaced with someone a little younger or at a cheaper/shorter term. What have we gotten, one year of him on this deal and now he looks like he's 40? I thought the Staal resigning was better but that's looking more awful by the day too.

 

It's not really about being a Yandle fan, as i like dude as a player, but it's about needing someone that like that in your D corps. If they had another young player who could step in do those things i'd say let him go, but who?McDonagh dosen't have that offensive sense and makes plenty of boneheaded decisions himself. I agree it will be tough to keep him with the paperweights we have now in #s 5/18.

 

I don't know, McDonagh has two less points. Yandle refuses to shoot the puck and has all of ONE GOAL. Boyle is up to 4 goals and 11 points.

Not sure what to say here other than nothing I have seen says Yandle is a difference maker. I think based on his 80 or so games with the Rangers it is clear he is not a difference maker. But again we can agree to disagree on that one. He certainly could get better, but to me the only shot that happens is if Staal is moved and he plays top 4 minutes.

He is also the only - dman on the team, for what that's worth.

Yandle is not nearly as good as I hoped he would be when we traded for him last season. If you guys think he is what you expected...that is cool. I have been underwhelmed by what he has added.

 

I also think the Staal resigning is much worse than the Girardi resigning. I think the latter will work out. I think Staal will not, double so when we added another LD in Yandle.

 

Yandle leads the team in assists. Nobody else within 4. Not sure why you're saying he refuses to shoot, he's second on the entire team in SOG, behind only Nash and well ahead of the rest of the defenseman. His shooting % is down from his career but hopefully that evens out and he gets a few more goals here. He's also not exactly getting blown out of the water in plus minus: he's a minus one, while the rest of the regular dmen are in single digit positive (Klein is +11 but has missed these last few massacres). I also saw a stat last week (not sure if it's still true) that he lead the ENTIRE NHL in power play points per 60 mins of power play time played. Which is another knock on AV: why the hell is this guy not on the first unit.

I think you just have slightly unrealistic expectations Chuck. This guy is good, and we need to keep him.