Zombie Trading CJ

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by mook, Dec 23, 2015.

?

Portland trades CJ in the next calendar year

  1. Yep

    20 vote(s)
    22.5%
  2. Nope

    69 vote(s)
    77.5%
  1. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Terry measured at 6'1.5" in the predraft measurements, and pretty skinny. CJ strikes me as much stronger and longer than Terry, but I couldn't find the complete pre-draft measurements for Terry.
     
  2. B-Roy

    B-Roy If it takes months

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    That is WAY more as a result of our "ICE" defensive scheme.
     
  3. handiman

    handiman Well-Known Member

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    Possibly, but we have no way of unraveling the two factors at this point in time.
     
  4. B-Roy

    B-Roy If it takes months

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    So the solution is to trade one of our best players before trying to fix the issue?
     
  5. 0-Our!

    0-Our! Noob-ish

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    That's just it, u can't fix CJ's defense from him doing anything (there's nothing more he can do here, he'll be forever limited); if u want to "fix the issue," u have 2 choices (in our case): 1) u trade CJ (because he won't accept a bench role again) for a guy who has/can do what CJ can't or 2) u trade away as many guyS/assetS as it takes to SUBSTANTIALLY improve the interior defense (while maintaining some stretch 4/scoring ability) so that the average @ best defense (u don't get this every game) that is exploited won't b/will b much less a factor to the point where u CAN win many more games vs. lose. So logically & most achievable is to trade CJ bc u give up the least amount of assets & disrupt the flow the least bringing in 1 guy vs. several.
     
  6. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    The wildcard is Crabbe though. He is the prototypical NBA shooting guard, and he is starting to come into his own. If he keeps growing, he could be a max guy. Can you see us rolling with three max guards?

    I am of the opinion that we should cash in one of our guards for another, equally valuable asset. We have A LOT of young talent right now, and some of that talent overlaps. If we could get a legit second star to go with Dame, that would be a huge move for us.
     
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  7. Pinwheel1

    Pinwheel1 Well-Known Member

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    He sounds like a great talent. But i just don't think they will trade him. They call him every day and expect him next year.
    And he wants to desperately come over this next year.
     
  8. handiman

    handiman Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm saying we can only guess at which of the two is the actual cause. We have bad guard defenders and a bad defensive scheme for the guards. CJ and Dame's entire careers revolve around Stotts' defense, so we've got no evidence one way or the other to separate the causes.
     
  9. B-Roy

    B-Roy If it takes months

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    I don't think you understand. The main issue with the Blazers allowing penetration is our defensive scheme. Guards are allowed to turn the corner on the pick and roll by design. CJ and Dame are not particularly great at getting around picks, but they look worse than they are because the Blazers allow guys like Paul or Bledsoe to see the whole floor without consequence. It's also why guys like Udrih/Irving/Dragic always kill us because they get free pull up mid-range jump shots. The solution is to just hedge the picks with our big man on players that have more of an ability to break down the defense. The Clippers routinely help Chris Paul (who is also small, and doesn't get around picks well) by hedging with DeAndre Jordan and Blake Griffin, I don't understand why Terry is insistent on using the same defensive scheme against every team.

    Stopping penetration 1 on 1 has not really been much of an issue, at least to my eyes. The problem is always the pick and roll. There aren't enough guards in the league that are actually good at recovering over screens (think Klay/Butler/George), and the good ones aren't available anyhow.
     
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  10. B-Roy

    B-Roy If it takes months

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    I understand that, but I am of the opinion that you should change the scheme before changing the (good) player.
     
  11. 0-Our!

    0-Our! Noob-ish

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    ? IF CJ had length/strength/stamina to not ONLY score BUT ALSO WAS gifted w/ length + strength + stamina (+ speed)... he'd BE a great defender (IF he wasn't THEN it'd b ALL mental; he has it in his mind now/capable of more w/ his mind on D but his body will never allow him to become what he needs to on D to help us @ SG; even though he's PG size & IF he guarded ONLY PG's, he'll never be good enough for what we need even there)... none of us would want to trade CJ/be having these conversations.

    Quoting u ^ "Their glaring weakness is that...," again, IF CJ had length..., he & Dame (much more CJ vs. Dame, I believe Dame CAN become good enough for us + w/ Dame, it's not JUST all about defense w/ him, he IS our/a leader; trade Dame & CJ wouldn't/couldn't b the leader Dame is) would b able to move/stay in front of their guys & ppl wouldn't be getting to hoop @ will.
     
  12. B-Roy

    B-Roy If it takes months

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    CJ could be that second star. Maybe not. Of course if you can get a Paul George or a Jimmy Butler you hands down go for it. Barring any of those types of deals (and let's be honest, it's REALLY unlikely), I don't think it makes sense to trade CJ. I just don't agree with the people trying to pidgeonhole CJ into a 6th man role, or wanting to trade him for the sake of it.

    And Crabbe as a max player, come on now. He would have to be the best 3&D player in the league to be a max player. He's definitely made strides, but his defensive abilities (and stats) are overrated, and he's not really a knockdown shooter.
     
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  13. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    If Wes Matthews is a max player, I think Crabbe could one day be a max player.
     
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  14. 0-Our!

    0-Our! Noob-ish

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    Certainly, u make some good points that I agree w/. I'll just say really quick, I'd love a 1 on 1 stopper but I'd be completely happy w/ an SG (preferably a SG/SF) that can fit in the team defensive scheme to work well w/ the team (NOT putting too much work on the front court positions almost alone) to give us a great team defender, a defensive synergy scenario would b peachy!:ygrin:
     
  15. 0-Our!

    0-Our! Noob-ish

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    I don't think max but a very good contract that he/nobody would scoff @ :tongue:
     
  16. B-Roy

    B-Roy If it takes months

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    Wes Matthews is not a max player, and was paid out of necessity. But even looking past that fact, Matthews proved his worth in over 6 seasons of solid play. Crabbe will have 1 after this season, IF he keeps it up, and he will be a free agent. I made a thread awhile ago that said I would not be surprised if he got a ~10 million deal under the new cap (which would be similar to what someone like Jae Crowder got from Boston), but max? Let's be serious.
     
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  17. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    I've been looking around and from what I can tell, Crabbe is a free agent this summer. Not sure if he's an RFA. If that's true, he could get a very nice offer from another team with all the money that's going to be flying around this summer.
     
  18. B-Roy

    B-Roy If it takes months

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    Yes he is a free agent, but you have got to be the ballsiest (and stupidest) GM in the world to offer a max (which would be 16M+ for Crabbe) deal for a guy that only has one season of Solid play under his belt.

    Either that, or you can literally see the future and Crabbe turns into Reggie Miller.
     
  19. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    People do stupid things when they have money to burn. The lack of shooting guards in the league right now and the fact that he's young and can shoot the ball could bring a nice payday for him. Maybe not max, but I think possibly more than 10 million per year.
     
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  20. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    If Crabbes really that valuable then I wonder what we can get for him.

    Dames a big PG. And CJs bigger than him..
     

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