I figured it out over the off season. I was tired of hearing about Arenas's defense so I sat down and figured it out. I took all of the PGs points against the Wizards in the games Arenas played. I factored in minutes played and minutes played by the scorer. I did this for all the Guards (PG and SG) and all the SFs that play like a guard. Gilbert was #4 in allowing the least amount of points.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rodenbo @ Jan 5 2007, 08:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I figured it out over the off season. I was tired of hearing about Arenas's defense so I sat down and figured it out. I took all of the PGs points against the Wizards in the games Arenas played. I factored in minutes played and minutes played by the scorer. I did this for all the Guards (PG and SG) and all the SFs that play like a guard. Gilbert was #4 in allowing the least amount of points.</div>Are you kidding me, you don't watch to see, you sit down and type on a calculator and then say that he is a good defensive player?
Considering I watched more than 80% of their games last year, I do watch and that is what made me want to find out, because he doesn't play defense as bad as everyone says, obviously.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rodenbo @ Jan 5 2007, 09:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I figured it out over the off season. I was tired of hearing about Arenas's defense so I sat down and figured it out. I took all of the PGs points against the Wizards in the games Arenas played. I factored in minutes played and minutes played by the scorer. I did this for all the Guards (PG and SG) and all the SFs that play like a guard. Gilbert was #4 in allowing the least amount of points.</div> It's kind of sad that you wasted that much time on such a worthless statistic, it doesn't prove who the better defender is... Lets just say....#1 #2#3#4 - Arenas - give up 16.2 ppg----------#15 - TJ Ford - gives up 17.6 ppg See, most of the these numbers would be so close that it proves nothing at all...Arenas gives up 1.5 less points, it proves nothing. Defense is so much more than PPG given up on the statsheet my friend.
Basically you're trying to say that someone that gives up 23 points per game could be better on defense than someone that gives up lets say 15. This stat doesn't prove that he's good or bad, but you can't tell me it doesn't mean anything.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Jan 5 2007, 05:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Eh, please. Kobe Bryant is my MVP. The dude can put up 40 a game if he wants to but is being more a team guy. I like Gilbert Arenas but he's a terrible defensive player...maybe if he put in half the effort Caron puts in the Wizards wouldn't give up so many points.</div>Co-sign. :yes1:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rodenbo @ Jan 5 2007, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Considering I watched more than 80% of their games last year, I do watch and that is what made me want to find out, because he doesn't play defense as bad as everyone says, obviously.</div>That is the most flawed system I have ever heard of to tell that someone is good at defense. That doesn't take into account how many times someome has blown by him and missed the layup because of a shot blocker like Brendan Haywood down low. That doesn't take into account how many times someone has blown by him, and then dished off because one of Arenas's teamates stepped up for help defense. Every time I have watched him, he has been blown by off the dribble. Nelson gets by him easily, Boykins and Miller got by him as easily as they wanted to. Devin Harris beat him off the dribble a group of times. Everytime I have watched him, he is getting beaten off the dribble by people, because he doesn't play good defense.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rodenbo @ Jan 5 2007, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Basically you're trying to say that someone that gives up 23 points per game could be better on defense than someone that gives up lets say 15. This stat doesn't prove that he's good or bad, but you can't tell me it doesn't mean anything.</div> I never said anything about someone giving up 23ppg being better than 15ppg...if someone in the NBA gave up 23ppg against point guards they would not be getting playing time in the NBA...it's simply too much to give up in a game from that position. I'm talking about your numbers, the difference is probably between 15-19 ppg, thats simply not a big enough gap to determine who is a better defender than who. Thats why in my mind it means nothing.
Valo, then assists and the way they figure out those is flawed too. It doesn't take into effect how many times someone passes to a wide open teammate and they miss the shot. Your "flaw" in my system is about as dumb as my "flaw" in the assist system.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rodenbo @ Jan 5 2007, 10:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Valo, then assists and the way they figure out those is flawed too. It doesn't take into effect how many times someone passes to a wide open teammate and they miss the shot. Your "flaw" in my system is about as dumb as my "flaw" in the assist system.</div> In my mind, statistics are there, they are true...but their are reasons and circumstances for them...and people fail to realize that too often.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Jan 5 2007, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In my mind, statistics are there, they are true...but their are reasons and circumstances for them...and people fail to realize that too often.</div>I agree totally with you, I threw my stat out there because is shows that he doesn't play the TERRIBLE defense that everyone says. Yes he lets guys by sometimes, but who doesn't, but it's not like he's the worst defender out there. He will never make 1st team all defense, but 2nd team isn't out of the question.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rodenbo @ Jan 5 2007, 09:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Valo, then assists and the way they figure out those is flawed too. It doesn't take into effect how many times someone passes to a wide open teammate and they miss the shot. Your "flaw" in my system is about as dumb as my "flaw" in the assist system.</div>Your completely right there to, I never said anything about the assist system being perfect. I know that it doesn't always prove how good someone is at passing just because they get alot assists per game. Lebron James assists numbers would be up alot higher if it wasn't for his teamates missing open shots he helps create. High assist numbers can also be a result of one team being more of a one catch and shoot team, than other teams that are more about passing the ball around. That's why Tony Parker will never be a high assist kind of guy, his teams are not built on that. Stats are just that, flawed, and do not always prove everything. That is why your stat system does not show that Gilbert Arenas is a good defensive player.
He is a GOOD defensive player, but he is not GREAT. You do not have to be a GREAT defensive player to win the MVP.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rodenbo @ Jan 5 2007, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree totally with you, I threw my stat out there because is shows that he doesn't play the TERRIBLE defense that everyone says. Yes he lets guys by sometimes, but who doesn't, but it's not like he's the worst defender out there. He will never make 1st team all defense, but 2nd team isn't out of the question.</div> Well, the statistic doesn't prove a damn thing in my opinion. Charlie Rosen and many scouts don't think his defense is very good, I don't either from the three times I've watched him...I just wish Arenas played more fundamental defense, his team would be much better for it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rodenbo @ Jan 5 2007, 10:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He is a GOOD defensive player, but he is not GREAT. You do not have to be a GREAT defensive player to win the MVP.</div> I agree, hell, look at Steve Nash Kobe - Great on offense Arenas - Great on offenseKobe - Good defense Arenas - Poor defense Thats half the game where Kobe is obviously better than Arenas and for me thats where Kobe gets the advantage.
There is no way that Gilbert wins the MVP in my opinion. Even though he is having such a great season, the entire world would go nuts if Gilbert won an MVP before Kobe did. If Kobe led his team to the playoffs last year averaging over 35 PPG, and he didnt win the MVP, why would Gilbert? Also, Kobe last year also won first team all defense.....Rodenbo, Gilbert is not a good defender. Your way that you found out how many PPG was scored agaisnt him is absolutley terrible. That can't be trusted what so ever. And even if that is true, that doesn't make him a good defender. And just for the record, I dont believe you that you did that what so ever. You did that for over 30 point guards? please.....The MVP so far this year IMO could go to several other players over him. Give me Tim Duncan, Lebron James (who has a worse supporting cast than Gilbert yet his team has a better record), Dirk Nowitzki, Kobe Bryant, Carlos Boozer, and hell, even Steve Nash. I would take either of those players over him. Gilbert is having a great year, but he doesn't deserve an MVP award.
Nash - Great on offenseKobe - Great on offenseNash - Poor on defenseKobe - Good defenderNash won it didn't he?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Jan 5 2007, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And just for the record, I dont believe you that you did that what so ever. You did that for over 30 point guards? please.....</div>I don't care what you think. The off season is a long period of time and it takes about 5-10 minutes to figure out this per person.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Jan 5 2007, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Eh, please. Kobe Bryant is my MVP. The dude can put up 40 a game if he wants to but is being more a team guy. I like Gilbert Arenas but he's a terrible defensive player...maybe if he put in half the effort Caron puts in the Wizards wouldn't give up so many points.</div>I think Kobe will end up with the MVP, but as of right now Gilbert deserves it more. You can't use passing as an excuse for Kobe because Gilbert passes more and is scoring more right now than Kobe is. You can argue about defense but Kobe has not shown very good defense at all this season, except for last night against Kevin Martin. I think part of this is due to him trying to get back to 100% from his knee injury and that's why I think he'll be the MVP because he will do even better than he is so far, and he's doing great right now. But if I had to pick between them at the moment, it would be Arenas for me. Kobe will win it at the end of the season though as long as there's no injury to him.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rodenbo @ Jan 5 2007, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nash - Great on offenseKobe - Great on offenseNash - Poor on defenseKobe - Good defenderNash won it didn't he?</div> Nash averaged 19/11 shooting 50% while leading a team with well over 50 wins. Big difference compared to the Wizards...even though I agree that Nash would not have won an MVP award the last 2 years.
