<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Jan 6 2007, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What are you talking about, his post game is not that great? Dwight Howards post game is what makes him a great player, it's not his game from 18 feet away, he rarely ever travels that far away from the rim. If he does go that far away, it's only to set a pick or help out if one of his players gets trapped.Furthermore, If you have been watching the Magic lately you would realize that Dwight Howard has been getting much better on the offensive end. The past three or four games have really proved it for me that he is getting much better, and much smarter. Last year, and very early this season he would rely on just pure athleticism to go get rebounds. Now it's like he knows when he isn't going to get a rebound and just puts a body on someone to make sure that the person doesn't get a rebound and lets someone else on his team get a better chance for a rebound. Dwight Howard has also shown a good variety of post moves down low, including some good spin moves and he is starting to get the ability to turn towards the guy and blow by him on the dribble. Dwight Howard has also started shooting a little bit more from 15 feet away, and has made that shot in the past few games. The thing that is making me the happiest, is how much better he is at passing out of double teams. He is finding open people very well, which has lead to ball movement. This has directly influenced Jameer Nelson who has been scoring much better this season. His defense is amazing, it might be helped by his athleticism, but his smarts help him out alot. He knows what side to play on people, he knows where to jump and try block from, and he knows when not to leave his feet. He is becoming more than just a power guy, he is getting much more skilled and better these days. As for that without athleticism they wouldn't be a very good scorer, the same could be said for Chris Bosh. If he wasn't as athletic as he was, he wouldn't score as many points as he does. His ability to move around with that lengthy body helps him gain an advantage over the other big men.</div>Well, you know alot more than I do. I don't watch the Magic that often, but when I do, his post game didn't seem that effective, and when he scored it was usually off of dunks, put backs, and points off of offensive rebounds. His post game didn't seem as advanced as most good big men in the League. But I'm not going to argue with you because you obviously are the Magic expert here.I don't know if that could be said for Bosh. Do you watch the Raptors that often? Bosh has one of the best mid range jumpers for a big man. He gets to the hole with his athleticism, but he would still be pretty good without it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jan 6 2007, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well, you know alot more than I do. I don't watch the Magic that often, but when I do, his post game didn't seem that effective, and when he scored it was usually off of dunks, put backs, and points off of offensive rebounds. His post game didn't seem as advanced as most good big men in the League. But I'm not going to argue with you because you obviously are the Magic expert here.I don't know if that could be said for Bosh. Do you watch the Raptors that often? Bosh has one of the best mid range jumpers for a big man. He gets to the hole with his athleticism, but he would still be pretty good without it.</div>I know he would still be able to score, but it would not be as easy for Bosh to score. That's the same for Howard, he would be able to score, but he would not score nearly as easy without his athleticism.
- How about Travis Outlaw? If he wasn't athletic, no way he would be a professional basketball player. In my book, he's really not a basketball player, he's an athlete.- The only reason Smush Parker is back in the NBA is because of his athleticism.- Mikki Moore should be added to this list as well. He is very athletic, but aside from that, the actual basketball skill that he has is D-League material.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jan 6 2007, 02:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>- How about Travis Outlaw? If he wasn't athletic, no way he would be a professional basketball player. In my book, he's really not a basketball player, he's an athlete.- The only reason Smush Parker is back in the NBA is because of his athleticism.- Mikki Moore should be added to this list as well. He is very athletic, but aside from that, the actual basketball skill that he has is D-League material.</div>Travis Outlaw can shoot the ball a bit now; but you're right, he gets by on athleticism. You have to admit that he is doing alot better this year. He is very athletic, he can shoot pretty well, plays defense, gets blocks, steals. He's gonna be a decent overall player. He sort of reminds me of Gerald Wallace, except he has a better jumper than Gerald.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jan 6 2007, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Marion does have a decent jumpshot from what I've seen. You probably know alot more about Marion's shot than I do though. But from what I've seen, it is ugly; but it usually is pretty good.And when I've watched Amare, he still doesn't have that post skill, and he has shown me that he still has alot of athleticism in him..And SunnyD, Greg Oden has a very decent post game for a college freshman. Expect him to improve upon that. I think he can become a good post player in the NBA. I also heard that he has a hook shot </div>He's a career 34% 3-point shooter, around 32% the last three years now and he's starting to miss the easy shots too. I get scared watching him shoot, it's almost like an expected waste of a possession. He'll have some good shooting games once in a while but not usually. Amare isn't a 3-point shooter but his mid-range is more reliable than Marion's and Amare is just much better at creating for himself down low and is a smarter overall player. Marion still makes rookie mistakes in his 8th year but makes up for it using his athleticism to get nice stats all around.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Jan 6 2007, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He's a career 34% 3-point shooter, around 32% the last three years now and he's starting to miss the easy shots too. I get scared watching him shoot, it's almost like an expected waste of a possession. He'll have some good shooting games once in a while but not usually. Amare isn't a 3-point shooter but his mid-range is more reliable than Marion's and Amare is just much better at creating for himself down low and is a smarter overall player. Marion still makes rookie mistakes in his 8th year but makes up for it using his athleticism to get nice stats all around.</div> 34% is definately not bad for a SF/PF. I was really talking about his mid range game though. It's decent from what I've seen of him.
Mickael Pietrus is as athletic as any swingman in the NBA but has a decent at best shot and terrible ballhandling.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jan 6 2007, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Travis Outlaw can shoot the ball a bit now; but you're right, he gets by on athleticism. You have to admit that he is doing alot better this year. He is very athletic, he can shoot pretty well, plays defense, gets blocks, steals. He's gonna be a decent overall player. He sort of reminds me of Gerald Wallace, except he has a better jumper than Gerald.</div>Yeah, he makes defensive plays. But why? His athleticism allows him to get to spots quicker. He is not a particularly good 1 on 1 defender. But yes, his jumper definitely has improved this year - that 18-20 footer. I mean, he has some upside to be a solid role player, but he does get by on sheer athleticism.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Jan 6 2007, 06:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This might upset some Mavs fans/others, but I think one might be Devin Harris. The kid is fast as hell, not a bad ballhandler, either. He misses way too many layups, doesn't get an enormous amount of foul shots. With the speed he has, he could do almost anything he wants... I'm not saying he's a disappointment, but I think with that athleticism, he's getting by.</div>You are absolutely correct right here...and until the kid learns how to make an open jump shot, consistently, he'll continue to get by on athleticism.Now as for not getting foul shots...it's not for a lack of trying, lol. He drives as much, or more, than D Wade, but doesn't nearly get the calls he gets...it's the lack of respect for him that he doesn't get those shots.But like I said, you're right...and it's not a bad thing that he's getting by, it's all the Mavs need right now. If the kid makes any kind of improvement with his shooting like Josh Howard did over the last 2 1/2 years, Harris will be a great player.I also agree that both Marion and Amare get by mostly on their athleticism, but they are still GREAT players.
I'm surprised nobody has said Samuel Dalembert. The guy has a very low basketball IQ, and relies mostly on his athleticism to grab rebounds, score, block shots (and get his normal 2 goaltends or so per game), etc. He has been working with Moses Malone for the past few months trying to develop into a better player, but at this point in time he is still getting by on raw athleticism. He wouldn't have got that 5-year, $60 million contract a few years back if it wasn't for his athleticism.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>This might upset some Mavs fans/others, but I think one might be Devin Harris. The kid is fast as hell, not a bad ballhandler, either. He misses way too many layups, doesn't get an enormous amount of foul shots. With the speed he has, he could do almost anything he wants... I'm not saying he's a disappointment, but I think with that athleticism, he's getting by.</div>That seems to be spot on Devin Harris. On his layups, I wish he would add to how he finishes. I think that will improve as he continues to play the game. But I would like to see smarter unique finishes at the basket. This year I think we've seen a couple of moves, good to see. Still misses his share though. As said on LMF, the Devin Harris roller coaster continues.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GArenas @ Jan 6 2007, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Justice, I don't really wanna argue with a Mavs fan about this but I think Devin Harris has alot of basketball IQ and ability. He was very good at setting charges in the finals and although I guess he does get by on Athleticism on the offensive end I think he's pretty good at defense.</div>No, I agree... I think he was absolutely terrific on the defensive end last night against Tony Parker. He's become very good at getting charges lately. He gave some trouble to AI and now to TP. He is really becoming one of the better PGs in the league as far as defense goes.But on the offensive end, he leaves much to be desired. Last night he threw up some just silly looking lay-ups. And for Christ sakes, I could swear the kid never practices his J. His jumpshot seriously must be one of the worst in the league. I think Desagana Diop shoots the J better than Devin. It's just sad, really. I love the kid, but it just feels like he could be better.
Like I already said, I agree with Justice, Rok, and Garenas on Harris...He could easily be considered the best defensive PG, but worst shooting PG in the league.I think he'll learn to finish his drives, and that'll make him real tough to defend...and if he becomes half as good as Josh Howard with his jumpshot, he'll be one of the better all around PG's in the league.
Josh Smith does NOT rely on athleticsm, yeah he has it and uses it, but hes has a decent jumper. Stromile Swift dunks maybe twice a game now and it lately getting around 20 point games, he has a good jumper for a big man and has learned some lowposts moves that are pretty damn good.I agree with Travis Outlaw Darius Miles Desmon Mason and another player:Shaquille Oneal.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Memphis Fan @ Jan 6 2007, 05:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>and another player:Shaquille Oneal.</div>I would call what he has genetics rather than athleticism, but I guess it could be considered a subset. Point taken, though. And agreed with.
Guys who get by on just athleticism are pretty much EVERYBODY in todays league, with the exception of a few players who know it takes more to be great.
^...I htink we know whos a "older" fan.Come on, you telling me Bill Russel, Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson didnt rely on athleticism to some point? They all did, and alotve people got away without needing it cause the NBA/ABA was weak back then in talent.
