Politics Under Sanders, income and jobs would soar, economist says

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by dviss1, Feb 11, 2016.

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  1. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    I'll ask again, since we're back to jobs and money and no one replied the first time... (though maybe that should've been my hint)

    Not going to delve into the politics, but just asking about the math...

    If 26M jobs are created, and the unemployment rate is 4.9% today with 7.8M unemployed persons (as posted by Bureau of Labor and Statistics), how does that only take the unemployment rate to 3.8%? So it would not only going to give everyone unemployed a job, but draft 18.2M other folks who are not currently in the workforce to do so? Or to backfill those jumping from their current job into one of Bernie's jobs?

    From the link:
    employment will prompt people to buy more, leading other businesses to hire.
    "If there is more spending, people will have more to do," Friedman said, noting that the share of the population with jobs could be restored to its 1999 level of more than 64%, up from its current 59.6% rate.
    Click to expand...
    Can someone explain what the benefits of the economic stimulus package of 2009 did, in terms of jobs? Did that 800B spike create jobs for 5% of America? What did the $5T in defecit spending over the last 6 years do, and what makes Bernie or his supporters think that giving that money to Congress this time around will do better things for America (snarkily, I'd say that you're giving it to majority R's instead of supermajority D's, but I don't want to cloud this with politics)?

    As for the median wage going up 22k, with 64% of America employed, that means that there's 350M*.64 *22k = $5Trillion dollars per year more going into salaries than even the CBO projects for 2026. Not 5T in salaries--5T more in salaries. If someone can explain how the government's investment in 13T in medical over 10 years can quadruple itself into salaries, I'd be stoked to hear it.

    As for free college, right now there are many more people going to college than (seemingly) the workforce can provide for. What will more college graduates--paid for by the government--do? Not many people are stopped from going to college right now. It's just that when they graduate there isn't a lot of work out there for liberal arts majors. Per the NSF, of the 20.9M enrollees in higher education in 2009, less than 500k graduated with a degree in a science or engineering field (which was among the highest numbers ever and an increase from 350k in 1994). 6 years after enrolling, 62% of S&E majors had earned a degree, compared to 55% in other fields. 45% of non-S&E majors didn't finish a degree within 6 years. How is making that free going to help significantly, whether having them perform better in school or getting them a job after graduation?
     
    BrianFromWA, Feb 12, 2016
    #141
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  2. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    SlyPokerDog, Feb 12, 2016
    #142
  3. Sinobas

    Sinobas Banned User BANNED

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    I don't know...this is a complicated problem, and I haven't done a lot of research on it. But generally speaking, nothing is "free", so people should stop using terms like "free healthcare". At the end of the day it's really just a matter of what we're all having to pay and what services we get in return.

    I'm technically "paying" 17 grand a year for health insurance, because that's what my employer pays on my behalf. If my employer started giving me that money, and my taxes went up less than that to pay for it, then health care would be costing less. But I've also seen studies, how in Europe and Canada, you have to wait much longer to get an appointment. So Americans pay more, but also get better service.

    But I also see the point, that insurance companies are profit generating middle men that don't serve a purpose. I think there comes a point, where you have to stop calling something "insurance" and call it pre-paid, that's what health "insurance" really is with the amount people are paying for it. We're pre-paying for health care, the insurance companies take a cut.
     
    Sinobas, Feb 13, 2016
    #143
  4. Sinobas

    Sinobas Banned User BANNED

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    Yet another interesting post from the SlyDog.
     
    Sinobas, Feb 13, 2016
    #144
  5. Sinobas

    Sinobas Banned User BANNED

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    I think that "free college" stuff is a load of bullshit. Though I appreciate Bernie's general idea of spending less on the military, and more on services, I think our tax dollars should be spend on things that benefit everyone, like infastructure, public schools, the environment etc.

    There are so many things wrong with the idea of free college. First of all, what about all the people that paid for it and are in debt, secondly, in many cases the college investement does not pay off for the individual, so why would it pay off for us as a nation? Should tax payers pay tens of thousands of dollars to get a kid an English lit degree? What the fuck for? And it's like the idea of giving a kid a free car vs one they paid for...that car is much less likely to be taken care of properly.

    If the country is lacking professionals in a certain area, perhaps offer targeted scholarships to certain fields.
     
    Sinobas, Feb 13, 2016
    #145
  6. bodyman5000 and 1

    bodyman5000 and 1 Lions, Tigers, Me, Bears

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    That may be true overall but you have to remember what kind of technology is demanded by the government and the consumer.

    A Nissan Versa base price is less than 12000. A mid level Snap On tool box is 13,000. I challenged the Snap On guy who comes to my work to a contest.

    I told him we could each use 1000 dollars to BUILD something. I'd try to build his tool box and he'd have to build a Versa. We could only use raw materials.

    I told him the loser had to buy the winner the product he was trying to copy.

    He wants noooooo part of that.

    His toolbox is a metal dresser on wheels.
     
    bodyman5000 and 1, Feb 13, 2016
    #146
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  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    You're a funny guy. Like a timex watch. Take a licking, keep on ticking. Don't know when to quit after you've lost. More like you've lost it.

    You're fixated on the one link and you interject some mythical premiums (TAX) on top of taxes that bernie has never mentioned as if they are somehow going to make his plan cost neutral. It's simply impossible based upon what he's promised and the amount of money he might theoretically raise by heaping even more burden on the taxpayer than we already face.

    So I gave you link after link of economist after economist, including the most socialist of them all, who say Bernie (and you) are living in fantasyland.

    And you "had to use arithmetic."

    Figures lie and liars figure.

    Enough said.
     
    Denny Crane, Feb 13, 2016
    #147
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  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    You and I rarely agree on things, but in this case we do.

    We shouldn't socialize business losses (bailouts), nor should we socialize investment losses (people invest in the stock market) or any other investments (invest in an education).

    Most of the colleges are government run, funded, educations funded, as it is. If they're not producing useful workers, we really should look at who's running them.
     
    Denny Crane, Feb 13, 2016
    #148
  9. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    As far as jobs go, there are 2.5M employed in the insurance industry. A significant number of those will lose their jobs and become a drag on the welfare state, worst case.

    That Bernie's plan doesn't measure up to the promise says a lot about whether jobs and GDP growth and anything else he promises also measure up.

    Who figures better, jlprk or the nobel award winning (LOL) economist Krugman?

    http://www.salon.com/2016/01/23/dis...ing_a_sanders_skeptic_doesnt_make_you_a_hack/

    His latest column is the most sustained critique of the Vermont senator’s presidential campaign we’ve seen from him yet, it’s true. But Krugman’s been looking askance at Sanders’ campaign for a while now, and his gripe — that Sanders’ campaign promises are unrealistic on both political and policy grounds — has been consistent throughout.
     
    Denny Crane, Feb 13, 2016
    #149
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