I'm encouraged that the team would consider moving Jimmy Butler. If you don't think the team has what it takes he's the logical choice to move IMO. How good can a team be with Jimmy Butler as its best player? And most importantly, what are the teams chances of acquiring the second star necessary to put next to him? Pretty small IMO since none of the other guys on the team have very high trade value. If you want to permanently pivot away from this core it's the best way to go, otherwise you're treading water. Moving Jimmy for a good package, getting what you can from a team that would be willing to rent Pau and have his bird rights, and trading D. Rose for Joe Johnson's expiring contract would be a good way to establish a new core, get a few first round picks and have FA money to spend.
Other than its not because of some plan, IMO. Its reactionary to comments Butler has been making in the media about Hoiberg and the team in general. If they could move Gasol and Rose first then maybe consider it for high picks / stud young players. I don't see what Olidipo / Vuc really does. Butler is one of the best players in the game right now. Just moving him and keeping Gasol and Rose isn't enough to totally tank this season. And they would have to get a really good return on Butler to warrant the move. If they can move Gasol and Rose and go into all out tank this season then it might be worth looking into, if they can get an actual good return for him. Troubling this is even being considered. Paxson was disappointed that this roster could not be coached in a manner to make the NBA Finals last season. Now 1/2 way through the next season its time to blow up the team?
I agree that if the sole motivation is to pull rank then this is a big mistake. What I meant is that if the team wants to clear the deck and hit the reset button then trading Jimmy Butler makes sense because he's the only one in the core that has trade value. He'd also need a second star to accompany him if he was to stay, but that's hard to acquire if none of your other top players have any tradevalue. That's what I was getting at. Gasol and Rose probably can't be moved for much more than monetary considerations. That's not worth much to the team as is. But that flexibility would mean a lot more if your salary structure allowed you to pursue free agents and acquire draft picks in the process. So trading Rose + Jimmy + Gasol has the most value when done together. I would expect trading Jimmy to be a white flag on the season and mark a permanent transition to a "Win Later" time frame, with the idea of stocking the cupboard with decent young players and draft picks and the chance to make deals in FA. But only Jimmy Butler has the trade value to give that route the horsepower it needs to succeed. No need to make new mistakes to cover up ones that were made yesterday.
They made Jimmy sign with the Bulls. Now he's making them trade him. Karma. Meet Mayor Hoiberg. The future ex-coach of the Bulls. Life goes on in Dysfunction Junction. Maybe the 29% drop in business is a wake up call. Transplant named the Bulls philosophy, "I'll play these." Pretty good description. The players and coaches come and go but the results are mediocrity. The constants are the problem. rosenthall has always been one of my favorite posters. Always well thought out posts and a good read. Not to single him out, just giving him a shout out. I like a lot of people who post here. Gar is the only decent guy in management. How idiotic to make him the scapegoat. Good luck with your team.
That was my first thought. If they try to trade Butler then they also should very hard try to trade Gasol and Rose also. Getting the best for Butler and as much as possible for Pau and Rose.
One thing to consider is if Rose and Gasol were traded over the all-star break and they took their time with Jimmy's injury, how bad would this team be? Could you get into the mid lotto this season while not trading one of the best players in the NBA? If you were trading Gasol, the only reason would be to get some type of asset and to lose more games this season. He's likely off the books for nothing at the end of the season. The goal for trading Rose would be to clear his salary a year early and perhaps get an asset, but you likely won't get much of an asset in return. At 12 PER he's going to help you lose games. If you are writing off Rose, salary dump Rose and Gasol (if you can get a 1st or cheap young asset, great), bring Jimmy back as slow as possible, get a good pick this season and reevaluate at the end of this season. Jimmy + 2 top notch FAs + 2 draft pick hits is a core to build around for the next 3 years. Or just all-out tank and try to get a superstar in the lotto.
A rumor based on an unverified Orlando source? Yeah, let's get all excited about this because, um, uh, um... The team would probably LOVE to trade Rose for almost anything. Unfortunately, no one wants him. He's untradeable. I'm not confident in this team. If it was me, I'd salary dump Gasol and call it a season.
Unverified or verified... it is more about possible trades. Would they really trade Butler because of his comments in the media? Are they ready to blow this team up? I think they won't do both...but who knows? But I see some trade happen...
If you trade Butler for Vuc and Oladipo and do nothing else, the team isn't significantly worse this year. Rose / Olidipo / Gasol / Vuc...and the rest.... that team is still going to win some games. If they can move Gasol and then trade Butler for meaningful draft picks then maybe. Rose alone, at least this Rose, isn't going to win games. This team is going to go straight up toxic though. Rose out there along with scrubs (wait, dougie and mirotic were going to be all-stars once they were freed form thibs right?) is going to be rough sledding. Just trading Butler for productive players and still having Gasol and Rose isn't going to get the Bulls where they need to be high lotto pick wise.
Agree that Rose has practically no value at all. Honestly I think the only teams that might have an interest in him are NJ for Joe Johnson in a salary dump or maybe bottom rung teams that are looking to meet minimum salary requirements and want a way to sell tickets while they collect lottery picks. I'd guess it'd be easier to trade him in the offseason after the FA dust has settled......I wouldn't be surprised if a few teams are okay with renting him out for a year if they need a PG and want to take a chance on him. Gasol might be able to get you an interesting piece or two if he was traded to the right team. Memphis and Toronto are two interesting trade candidates IMO. The Raps might have an interest in doubling down on getting to the finals this season and upgrading from Luis Scola to Gasol could be enticing enough that they'd be willing to trade some combination of young players and picks to get it done. It's also a lovely city so Gasol could still go to the opera and do wine tastings in his free time. They have Delon Wright, Lucas Noguieroa (sp?) and Bruno Caboclo at the bottom of their roster right now, not sure what picks they have, but some combination of Gasol/Snell for Scola/Johnson/young player/picks might work. It'd clear salary and allow us to re-stock the bottom of our roster, which I think is a serious problem for the team right now. Memphis might be more willing to give up longer term pieces if they knew Gasol would like to stay with his brother, and maybe even take a discount to do it. However, when I look at their roster I'm just not seeing very much that excites me. But a Gasol trade to recoup the draft picks we lost in the Doug trade could be useful going forward to enhance the team's ability to make trades, which is pretty weak right now. Also, does anyone know of a site that lists what picks each team has? I'm looking at the usual suspects (hoopshype, RealGM, BBReference) and not finding anything useful. This would help with identifying useful trade targets for Pau.
http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_draft_trades/2016 Does that help? Or this.... http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/team
OK. No they wouldn't. No, they're not, but no one on the roster is untouchable. Nobody here. OK, but why?
I Agree that moving Jimmy for a basket of young productive players won't do much unless Rose and Gasol are also moved to clear the decks at the same time in an effort to do an accelerated rebuild. I think a big issue with Rose is that I can only imagine teams willing to trade for him at the end of this upcoming offseason. I can't see any team wanting him with his current level of play, but I can see a few teams being okay with using him as their backup plan at PG if things don't go their way and want to take a chance on him in the last year of his contract. He's an intriguing possibility for a team looking to tank, but that's about it. Another thing to consider is Jimmy is on his way to being massively underpaid. After next year his salary will resemble that of MLE guys more than other max guys his age. I think that's what allows the Bulls to ask for a lottery pick in addition to young players from Orlando. It also gives the team useful options in FA. If we decide to retain Jimmy while rebuilding I like the idea of planning for 2017 free agency. I'd think about re-signing Noah to a 1 year deal and he, Taj, and Mirotic would all come off the books at the same time and we'd basically have a massively underpaid Jimmy Butler and guys on their rookie contracts on our roster......not a bad recipe for making a big play.
Though it's not all about statistics, of the 338 NBA players on a pace to play 500 or more minutes this season, Derrick Rose ranks 321st in terms of scoring efficiency (true shooting %). Among PGs, he ranks 61st out of 73 in assist % and ranks smack in the middle (tied for 37th) in turnover %. He must be paid about $21mil this season and next. I don't believe any bottom-rung teams want this package. Joe Johnson has a $25mil contract that expires after this season. If they'll trade the Bulls Johnson for Rose straight up, I'll kiss that Russkie SOB on the mouth.
Completely agree that, by the numbers, Rose is one of the worst values in the league. I think the one silver lining is that, despite his frequently awful play, his game still has a pretty high ceiling that teams account for when they gameplan for him. It's why he still gets big minutes despite his statistical ineptness.
Thinking out loud, Boston could be a good trade target for Jimmy Butler. They have David Lee's expiring and a bunch of valuable draft picks. The following trade works in trade checker: David Lee Avery Bradley Brooklyn's pick (currently #3) Brooklyn's 2018 pick For Jimmy Butler Bobby Portis Cam Bear It is absolutely incredible how bleak NJ's future is. They don't have a single valuable draft pick coming up in the next 3(!) years.
Partially, yes, of course. If Butler keeps undermining Hoiberg and criticizing the team in the media they will certainly start to smear him and then attempt to trade him. Seems foolish to undermine his value, but there is political benefit to getting the fan base to want to be rid of the guy. Job preservation is the key for the front office. Trading a popular player that is performing well is tough politically. Trading a malcontent is easier. Firing an elite, popular head coach is a tough sell. If that head coach is perceived as too difficult to deal with and behind the times, well, that's an easier sell, even if the coach is still elite. They did it with Rose and Team Rose. They of course did it with Thibs. Happens all the time. Just watch for what is getting released in news by the beat writers and when it starts getting released. Look for Rose to be the subject of ire as well in the coming months. Granted, he's not playing well. On the other hand, the season that he was the MVP is the lone time since MJ the Bulls have made it to the Eastern Conference Finals. That's well over a decade and a half if you are keeping track. Blow the team up? Try to win this year? Whatever maintains / increases job preservation and profits. Blowing it up moves the window down the road. Perhaps job preservation if you can keep the fans interested / filling up the UC.
This would be more like it. Butler is a stud and you need a high lotto pick as compensation. It tough. Butler is certainly a star player, but not a superstar. If the Bulls could somehow tank this year and also get the Kings pick, plus a good FA year, perhaps they get lucky and get the guy to pair with Butler? It boils down to how do you get a superstar. If the goal is to win the title. Those Brooklyn picks could get the Bulls there eventually. You have to trust this front office though to do the right thing.
At the moment I don't have the trust in the front office. I only expect perhaps a money saving trade or some little trade. Don't see much change... Not many Bulls trade rumors...but perhaps "die Ruhe vor dem Sturm"?
