Asking me to argue in your arbitrary context is the same as me asking you to argue in my arbitrary context, you understand that right? This thread was clearly spawned by the Lillard Time is a Myth thread... What I will say is that no player should be immune to criticism, not Dame, not Roy, not anyone. You seem to get worked up every time someone says something that can be construed as negative about Lillard.
Dammit Sly.. it isn't who saved the Blazers.. its who is a better player!!! lol. Did PA really put the team up for sale? meaning potentially moving the team somewhere else, or for sale only to local buyers, or buyers who would keep the team here? That's kinda scary I never knew he lost interest in the team at one point.
Portland Arena Management As a result of the bankruptcy proceedings, the Oregon Arena Corporation was dissolved and their assets (primarily the Rose Garden and the underlying land) became the property of the lenders on January 1, 2005.[9] The lenders formed a new corporation, Portland Arena Management LLC ("PAM") to manage the property acquired in the bankruptcy proceedings, and hired Global Spectrum to operate the arena.[8] For a while, the Trail Blazers (still owned by Allen) and the Portland Arena Management had a highly hostile relationship,[11] with the two entities competing for ticket sales.[12] Almost immediately after PAM took over the arena, the Trail Blazers demanded that new owners perform US $40 million in renovations to maintain the Rose Garden as a "first class facility."[9] Effects One year after the Rose Garden was transferred to creditors, Larry Conn, an executive at Vulcan Inc. gave an interview in which he claimed that "all options were on the table" concerning the Trail Blazers as the "economic model" was broken, and noted that without a "public-private partnership", "no businessperson can sustain losses of that kind".[13] Conn noted that the lease agreement with Portland Arena Management gave PAM all revenue from the arena's premium seating (the black courtside seats, as well as luxury box revenue), concessions, and parking, as well as all arena-related revenue for events other than Trail Blazer games. The Trail Blazers retained the revenue for non-premium seating (the arena's red seats) for Blazer games.[14] Paul Allen repeated the claim in an interview in March.[15] Team officials were vague about specifics, leading to much media speculation that Allen might sell the team, attempt to move it, or was lobbying for increased public financing of Trail Blazer operations.[16] In addition to the lease concerns, that season the Blazers posted the league's worst record (21-61),[17] and attendance was below average.[18] While the financial model may have been broken for the Trail Blazers, it was anything but for Portland Arena Management. Rose Quarter GM Mike Scanlon of Global Spectrum stated that the company was "very happy with how things are going at the Rose Garden", and referred to Global's stewardship of the Garden as a "very positive experience". He noted that the arena did 45 concerts in 2005, and that same year landed another sports tenant, the Portland LumberJax of the National Lacrosse League.[12] Trail Blazers and arena go up for sale Throughout the spring of 2006, NBA commissioner David Stern met with both Blazer management and PAM in an attempt to repair the relationship.[14] In the spring of 2006, Allen and PAM agreed to jointly market the team and the arena for sale.[19] Fourteen investor groups (including one fronted by Terry Porter) expressed interest, and paid a US$100,000 application fee. The highest initial bids were in the US$300–$325 million range.[14] However, Allen unexpectedly pulled the team off the market.[20] It was speculated that Allen agreed to sell the team to learn what price Portland Arena Management would accept from a third party.[14] Others suspected that he had advance knowledge of the upcoming purchase of the Seattle SuperSonics by Oklahoma City businessman Clay Bennett, and that Allen saw an opportunity to move the Blazers to his hometown of Seattle should the Sonics move to the Sooner State.[21] In an interview, Allen indicated that the Blazers' strong 2006 draft, including 2006 NBA Rookie of the Year Brandon Roy, caused him to change his mind about selling the team.[14] Public reaction The bankruptcy filing was widely criticized in the local media and elsewhere.[14] Helen Jung, a reporter for The Oregonian described the affair as a game of "chicken" and as "bankruptcy as a business strategy", and noted Allen may have worsened his position by taking the arena into bankruptcy rather than offering a higher settlement.[3] Lewis & Clark College law professor and noted local blogger Jack Bogdanski was even more unkind, attacking the morality and "character" of a billionaire "weaseling" his way out of a debt that he could easily repay personally, especially at a time when the team was putting an emphasis on the off-court behavior of his players.[22] Claims concerning the "broken financial model" were similarly mocked. After Blazer management complained about having the "worst lease in pro sports",[13] Dwight Jaynes of the Portland Tribune noted that the situation was largely the team's own fault.[23] Helen Jung noted that teams regularly complain about losing money, and suspected that such claims were often a ruse to obtain public financing.[24] During the bankruptcy period, the team and the state's largest newspaper, The Oregonian, had an especially troubled relationship. Oregonian columnist John Canzano and then-Trail Blazers president Steve Patterson were deeply distrustful of each other. The paper hired an outside editor to investigate the relationship between the paper's sports department and the team.[14] The Trail Blazers, for their part, maintained throughout putting Oregon Arena Corp. into bankruptcy was the best option for the team. Paul Allen stated that the debt service on the loan was greater than the revenues earned by the stadium, especially in the face of declining attendance. Allen also noted that the creditors, on a loan of $155 million, had recouped $195 million in cash over the years, plus the arena, which the bankruptcy court valued at US$60 million.[15] Paul Allen re-acquires the arena On February 2, 2007, Allen (through his subsidiary Vulcan) and PAM announced that the parties had signed a letter-of-intent for Allen to repurchase the arena.[25] On April 2 of that year, the deal was completed. At that point, a new Allen-owned corporation, Vulcan Sports and Entertainment, was chartered to operate Allen's sports-related properties, including the arena, the Trail Blazers, and the Seattle Seahawks. Terms of the purchase agreement were not disclosed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Garden_arena_bankruptcy
I do understand that, but I'm a compromising man and would feed you if you fed me. I do get worked up0, but its about how, not why. Im all about open discussion of the negatives, but want to walk away with something positive and to me a beat down with nothing new as an answer isnt positive. Im a firm believer that negativity feeds off of negativity and the same for positivity. With this type of mindset and knowing how some threads go, Im sure you can understand why I get put off at times. There is a way to discuss negativity while being positive... just doesn't seem to happen much here, so im trying to force/push the issue. Sports is the same. What does ever champ have in common? A positive winning attitude.
Just saw this thread....... in the original post it starts out with ,"all this controversy about Dame" What the hell did I miss? What happened with Lillard?
Buddy, you can't ask such a subjective question as "Who is the better player?" and not expect to get 50 different answers. Every person defines "better" differently, so of course everyone's answers to the question are going to be defined within their own parameters. Best single season, best career, best teammate, best leader, most efficient, most respected, most consistent, most versatile--all of these are valid ways to look at and answer the question. It's honestly a bit arrogant of you to say that the way you choose to define better is any more or less valid than the way B-Roy or anyone else does.
I skipped right past your answer. I have you on "manual ignore" (except when you respond directly to me and require a rolled-up paper to the nose).
Support as in better players around him. Oden was basically a rookie in 2008-2009 - talented as hell, but for all purposes - a rookie. LMA was a 3rd year player rounding into form - but he was not anywhere near the LMA that Dame played with for 3 years. Nic was nowhere near as good as the Nic that Dame played with. That team did not have anyone as good as Wes next to Roy and his PG rotation was Blake and Sergio. No, I do not think that Roy ever had as many good players as Dame had around him for 3 years - more talented? Possibly - simply because Oden was a real world class talent, but he was raw as hell and fouled as if he was drinking like a fish... I do not think that we have any way to know what a healthy Roy in his prime team with a mature LMA, Nic, Wes and Robin Lopez would look like - but I believe this would have been a finals contending team.
Understood, and I thought i said " I should have" and then tried to narrow it down with some guidelines... Apparently thats not allowed here. I get that I wasn't clear on what I was asking, but Ive tried to clarify that. If that doesn't work, so be it. im not worked up over it, just hoping people CAN narrow it down Your nerves are easy to rattle then... Shit, I never put MArusol, Tunchi or Tlong on ignore... lol
I don't even know how this become part of the topic because it's completely irrelevant to the question about whether Roy in 08-09 was better than Dame in 2015-2016. Not saying you were the first person to bring it up, but I just don't understand how it became part of the conversation.
There were plenty of rumors about how he changed after he became a star. Rumors about how he didn't want to play with a point guard like Andre Miller because he wanted the ball in his hands. And I remember him not being happy that the ball was going into Oden in the post so much. Seemed like there was quite a bit of reporting about how he was becoming a diva, and where there's smoke, there's fire.
