What's crazy, is that with all this new stem cell advancements and new ways we're finding out how to regenerate cartalidge, Roy's career possibly could have been saved if he were entering the league now or so. It's also crazy to look back, everything is so unpredictable. In the middle of 08-09 who would have thought Roy would be gone in a year or two, LMA would become well on his way to being the best Blazer ever, we win a playoff series, then he up & leaves after Wes ankle blows up. Not to mention we were fortunate enough to draft a new BRoy and great player and leader in Lillard. It's just mind boggling to think of all that's happened.
What's crazy is Roy could still come back. He's only 31yrs old. If they find some treatment he could come back at age 35 and play until he's 40.
It became a part of the conversation when you said that you believe that Dame has more talented than Roy. I am 100% behind Dame is a better blazer and player - but I am not going ready to accept that he is more talented yet. Roy had all the talent in the world. He just was never healthy enough with good enough support system (mature teammates in their prime and great offensive coach) to really show us what he could do with all that talent.
Roy was something special, no doubt- but injuries really robbed us of all that he was on the way to being, which would have been something great imo. Dame has had a meteoric rise as well, and brought peace to a lot of the lost opportunity pain from losing Roy, Oden etc - he's the jewel in our crown for sure. The harder question is if you'd take....... 1. our current roster exactly as we know it as they are. OR 2. Or roll the dice on a alternate earth 2 version of the Blazers where Roy and Oden are both healthy and starting (albeit a little older ) nothing else on the roster is known... which would you go for? the known or the what if? Better the devil you know imo, but damn itd be cool to know what that combo could have been.....
Roy benefited greatly from coming along at a low point. He wasn't responsible for the team turning around he just happened to be along for the ride as the best player when all that crap happened. Put Sabonis, Wes Matthews, Briant Grant, Jerome Kersey or any of those solid franchise guys on the team in Roy's situation and the team finally makes it back to the playoffs; they'd get all sorts of credit for saving the franchise. There were tons of factors; Roy was only a small minor piece.
I'm not sure exactly what you're saying.... but yes, I do think Dame is more talented than Roy. I think he has done things in his first four years that Roy never did. But B-Roy is saying that Roy's 08-09 season was better than Dame's best season. I disagree.
Blazers didn't make the playoffs Roy's rookie season. Roy was far from a minor piece. He became the leader and face of the franchise by the time the 2006-07 season was over. Paul Allen took the team off the market, then decided to end the drama and buy back the Rose Garden. While I love and respect all of the players you mentioned, some even more than Roy, none of them would have had an as immediate impact on the team, the franchise and the fan base. Roy was a breath of fresh air that was finally able to blow away the stench of the Jail Blazers.
I love Brandon but there will always be that tinge of "what could have been." My memory of him will always be at the height of his game. Dame has hitched his career to the Blazers for the long hall and my hope is he retires as a Blazer. Just once in my life I would like to see a player in full.... not someone who's knees blew out, or got traded to Houston to live out his career fantasy. Someone who is completely identified with this franchise as its greatest player, unequivocally.
This is why I made my point - because I am not certain that Dame is more talented. I believe that what we have seen him do things Roy did not was because he was in a better system with better support and more health to develop than Roy had. It is OK to disagree - I love everything that Dame does - and his talents are better suited to what the new NBA is evolving into - but Roy had tons of talent, maybe more than Dame did - he just did not do all these things that Dame managed so far because the chips did not fall as readily his way as Dame's did in his NBA career so far.
See, this is where I disagree. Broy may have had more physically raw talent, but Dame was surrounded by vets that would share the load more. If anything I would think that Roy would have had more of an individual output because he was isolated more and was the go to guy pretty much from day one, where Dame has only been the go to guy for this year.
To me Roy and Lillard are completely different players that it's hard to draw a comparison between them. Or even determine who is the more talented or better player. The one thing that can be said without a doubt is Lillard is much better playing off the ball than Roy ever was. One could argue Roy held certain teammates back from reaching their potential due to needing the ball in his hands to be most effective. But Roy is miles ahead of Lillard in terms of CoD ability. Which made Roy a better iso player. But I don't think it's qualifyable to say Roy or Lillard were better than each other. They had different games, different strengths & weaknesses.
Roy could not have more of an individual output for several obvious reasons: 1. He was not the 3 point shooter that Dame is. 2. He did not have another offensively dominant player that had to be stopped by opposing teams. The LMA that played with Roy was not the dominant low-post guy that you had to respect as the one that Dame had - and Roy never had anyone that could create as well as he did and could score as he did - as Dame has in CJ - so the defense had a much easier job of focusing on him. 3. The team was playing the slowest pace in the NBA where this team is about half way in the NBA, you get about 7 or 8 more times per game to do something in this team 4. The ISO system implemented at the time again made it much easier to focus on stopping Roy and only Roy to shut the Blazers down. The fact that he had an amazing output given these points - to me, shows that he was a massively talented player. Compare the 2013-2014 Blazers to the 2008-2009 Blazers. Both teams won 54 games during the regular season - but the 2008-2009 team did it with Roy being the best player on a team that featured the slowest pace in the leauge, a "rookie" Oden, a rookie Nic Batum (starting) a young LMA that was no-where near as good as the 2013-2014 LMA. That team had no place in the world to win at a 0.65 pace - and it was all because of Roy. Just to give you a comparison - during the 2013-2014 year Robin Lopez gave you more minutes, points per game than Oden gave you during 2008-2009. Assume for a minute that Roy and Dame played the same position (Guard #1) - the 2013-2014 had better players in every position (Older Batum > rookie Batum, Older LMA >> young LMA, Lopez > Oden, Wes >>> Blake) and while the 2008-2009 bench was somewhat better than the 2013-2014 bench - the 2013-2014 team was super healthy with the starters playing long, productive minutes in almost every game of the season. I will say this - I think that individually, Roy was a massive talent that I do not think even Dame has, but the way the game is played today and the move away from ISO play and emphasis on 3 point shooting makes Dame more valuable today - and maybe the talent gap is not that big. When you add Dame's health, apparent leadership and ability to play off the ball - he is a better player to build around for today's NBA
